Controversial AF. Crafting negatively impacts this game.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

PoE 2 will eventually end up just like PoE 1. Where the entire game is balanced around the 'economy' and crafting/trading

Just look at what's happening now. POE2 already turned into POE1. Wanna know why?

The top POE1 streamers came to POE2 and fucked it all up. If it was JUST new/casual players, we'd probably get somewhere, but that won't happen.

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Aulyx#1181 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

PoE 2 will eventually end up just like PoE 1. Where the entire game is balanced around the 'economy' and crafting/trading

Just look at what's happening now. POE2 already turned into POE1. Wanna know why?

The top POE1 streamers came to POE2 and fucked it all up. If it was JUST new/casual players, we'd probably get somewhere, but that won't happen.

They ruin almost everything they touch. Getting real sick of streamers honestly, at least the non-variety streamers.

The morons that spend 15,000 hours in PoE, streaming it every day? They can go eat cat turds.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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way2stupid#9491 wrote:

I am what could be considered a new player, i started playing in Sentinel league!
I was drawn in by PoE1 reputation of having the most complex endgame systems in combination with nearly endless character customization.

Needless to say, i was not disappointed - on the contrary, i grew to love this game very much, despite or maybe even because of all the obstacles and challenges it threw in my way.

One thing became very obvious very fast - i really dont like trading. It is simply not for me. But i know quite a lot of people who love the trading and economy, they almost play it as a game of its own. I can respect that, even if its not for me. My path to becoming a 100% SSF player was only a matter of time.

And as much as i disliked trading, there was on particular system that fascinated me like no other, more or less right from the start: crafting.

Crafting in PoE1 is such a joy for me. Its such a deep system in PoE1, you can put hours upon hours in it and still learn so much. You can plan your entire league around it, structure your whole progression.
But you can also just essence slam some fractures to get any type of gear to make almost all builds functional on a basic level.
Its reputation makes it seem a lot harder than it actually is.
Its a brilliant system!

But what boggles my mind and i hope i get some answers:
If you dont like trading and you dont like crafting, arguably 2 of the most refined and most integral systems of PoE1, why even bother playing the game?
For its combat?! Its graphics?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just want people to wake up and realize that the amount of people that like the economy system in this game, are not representative of the majority of players. And it's especially bad on the forums, because most players don't care enough to voice an opinion on a game if it's bad, they just stop playing. And then on the forums/reddit, you've got people with 20 supporter packs talking about how good crafting is. It's out of touch.

You read reviews on this game and most people will stop playing when exposed to the reality of the crafting/trading system after they finish the acts. Most of my friends have quit this game over the years, people who all grew up loving ARPG's and still play other ones.

Why do I play? Because I like the builds, I like the world. And I always quit when the game becomes crafting simulator. I come back once or twice a year to play a character or two to 85 and leave. Like the majority of players.

And PoE 2 has a chance to actually set itself apart from PoE 1. We can keep the economy intact in PoE 1 and people can go play that if they want it.

The reality is, either GGG makes a game that appeals to the whales and addicts of PoE 1. Or they make a game that has more widespread appeal. But with the game being separated, it's clear they're trying to change the game. And feedback on systems like this is necessary if the game is to have a more widespread appeal.

You say the majority of players that quit PoE1 quit because they are put off by crafting, trading and the daring endgame!
I say the majority of players who dont quit PoE1 and really play the game love those systems, the in depth crafting, trading and endgame (minus the trading for SSF andys like me) and its why they play PoE2.
You say the majority of players who play PoE1 barely finish Acts for the same reasons the quitters quit.
I say the vast majority of playtime comes from players who dont quit after campaign.
And these are the people GGG caters for, because these people made PoE1 the game it is, these are the people that supported it through its lifetime.

My whole point was not to say they shouldnt chage these systems in PoE2 with the goal in mind to reach a broader audience. Im actually all for that. I still have the brilliance of PoE1.
My whole argument was to dismantle you point that crafting and trading where detrimental systems to PoE1 and to argue that these systems are what made PoE1 such a huge success as a niche game for a niche audience!
Because there is no arguing that thats what PoE1 was and is.

And i got to be honest with you, the way you describe what you liked about PoE1, youi could have easily found in one of its competitors.
If you just there for a nice campaign and character progression, why not play Last Epoch or Diablo4.
Why come here and discredit the major thing that set PoE1 apart from those game and are at the center of its identity and call its players "addicts".
Makes no sense at all!

I'd propose, expand crafting AND drops. And just get rid of trading completely. I'm having more fun doing SSF and crafting than I ever had trading.

play SSF, it is the much better game

Crafting should be meaningful and not feel like I'm gambling. I should be able to craft exactly what I want versus getting some random result that wasn't something I wanted. Crafting needs overhauled.

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Aulyx#1181 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

PoE 2 will eventually end up just like PoE 1. Where the entire game is balanced around the 'economy' and crafting/trading

Just look at what's happening now. POE2 already turned into POE1. Wanna know why?

The top POE1 streamers came to POE2 and fucked it all up. If it was JUST new/casual players, we'd probably get somewhere, but that won't happen.

1) Who are you to say who gets and doesn't get to play the game?

2) Streamers coming in and breaking open the game is actually one of the best things that can happen to Early Access, because it lets the devs work on solutions to the busted builds before proper release. If they didn't, people/new streamers would still find those same builds, except later after launch, and GGG would have to fix them WHILE also dealing with league cycles.

(Disclaimer: Neither of these are to say that the game should be balanced around the top players' experience)

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way2stupid#9491 wrote:

You say the majority of players that quit PoE1 quit because they are put off by crafting, trading and the daring endgame!

Quite a few people yes. The game is appeal to most players until they hit the end game. There's plenty of evidence that points to this too.

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way2stupid#9491 wrote:

I say the majority of players who dont quit PoE1 and really play the game love those systems, the in depth crafting, trading and endgame (minus the trading for SSF andys like me) and its why they play PoE2.
You say the majority of players who play PoE1 barely finish Acts for the same reasons the quitters quit.

You are right. Many that stay, do love the systems. There are other considerations to be made however, like the 'crafting' system. It's essentially gambling, and can hook players that way too. So it's not only because they like it. But it is a large reason why.

However, this is the entire point of separating PoE 1 and PoE 2.

There's not much of a reason to implement these mechanics in both games. When one game has already largely perfected them. And it's especially detrimental when the goal of PoE 2, was to rid itself of mechanics that were holding it back from more mainstream appeal. Again. Which is why they separated the games.

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way2stupid#9491 wrote:

My whole argument was to dismantle you point that crafting and trading where detrimental systems to PoE1 and to argue that these systems are what made PoE1 such a huge success as a niche game for a niche audience!

I'm not saying it was detrimental to POE 1. I am saying it's detrimental for a game if the goal is to appeal to a more mainstream audience.

PoE 1 clearly catered to a specific type of player, and that's fine. But the entire point is. We don't need two games, with crafting and economy systems in them. They can be entirely different.

PoE 2 being based around good loot, instead of an economy is a huge bonus for players looking to play casually.

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way2stupid#9491 wrote:

And i got to be honest with you, the way you describe what you liked about PoE1, youi could have easily found in one of its competitors.

I like PoE 1's passive tree and builds. I enjoy the world. Could I find this in other games? Yes, maybe.

however. The issue is that we now have PoE 2. I accepted what PoE 1 was, and played it sparingly because of it. I don't want PoE 2 to follow down the same path, and end up only appealing to 10% of the playerbase, while everyone else plays the campaign and leaves afterwards.

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way2stupid#9491 wrote:

Why come here and discredit the major thing that set PoE1 apart from those game and are at the center of its identity and call its players "addicts".
Makes no sense at all!

Because. We are in Early Access for PoE 2. And I recognize the issues that these systems caused that stopped the game from gaining more mainstream appeal <3

Hence the feedback. You know, because I want the game to be more successful than PoE 1 was. To appeal to more players, and to be a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

The crafting in PoE2 can't be removed because it doesn't exist.
It's a glorified pixel casino at the moment with no deterministic way on focusing on something.

While i'd love to play SSF and ignore trading, at the same time it's what makes many people feel like the stuff they find is actually worth something. It also for me personally gives the game a sense of community when i can share items with friends or the guild and simply give them something i find and dont have use for.
And since community is something thats kinda relevant for many people when its about longterm player retention, i'm not sure if removing it would be the best option.

As for the whole "Bad PoE1 Players, Bad Streamers, Bad whatever"-bashing.
Its incredibly all these people that want to have the game essentially be single player and play SSF, care so much about what other people do when they literally right now in the game can just play SSF and not care about what other people do at all.

What negativeley impacts the game is all the people who don't want to craft or trade. Go play something else....