Controversial AF. Crafting negatively impacts this game.

Yeah, having only gambling systems in place to satisfy mandatory gear/stat quotas is a bad combination. Relying on trading for the vast majority of viable gear upgrades in order maintain a stat quota is a massive buzzkill. There are a lot of ways that this crap could get improved too:

Runes, I think basically everyone agrees, should be replaceable for one. Some less desired Runes also need some numerical adjustments. Having more runes and souls cores would also be good.

Mandatory gear/stat quotas are a tedious mess due to how they force players to balance their gear instead of using items that should be a simple net gain, yet aren't due to not matching the mandatory stat quota. I think resistances are the biggest offender for this and I actually made another post going into how many symptoms that actually causes and how to fix it:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3629096

Movement speed on boots is pure hell right now too. Boots NEED to have high tier movement speed as an affix or they go in the dumpster. If you can't get lucky enough to meet the speed+resistance boots quota then you have to resort to trading or your pacing and survive-ability can't keep up with endgame content. Boots should just innately scale movement speed either as an implicit or as a hidden speed modifier like other armour pieces have with values dependent on the base-type.

Item rarity is also balanced nightmarishly right now. With the default rarity of items being so low the game is awful without acquiring rarity gear just to get better rarity gear to get even better rarity gear just to then get good loot. Trading is, from a time management perspective, a massive and near mandatory skip from the base-line game to the endgame good loot. Me and a fairly large amount of people think that base-line rarity should be buffed so things will actually drop in the first place and then rarity on gear should be heavily toned down or even removed from rare mod pools.


Even if the gambling system that people call "crafting" sticks around at least a lot of other things could be changed to alleviate some of the tedium that currently incentivizes trading to a grueling degree.

"

Cyriac_Darakus#1022 wrote:

What negativeley impacts the game is all the people who don't want to craft or trade. Go play something else....

Ah yes the classic 'Go play something else' comment.

In a feedback forum on an early access game no less.

Tell me. Do you even remember waking up today? Or did you kind of just.. end up in front of the computer. Serious question.

"

Lynk#4447 wrote:

The crafting in PoE2 can't be removed because it doesn't exist.
It's a glorified pixel casino at the moment with no deterministic way on focusing on something.

That's why I made this thread. I don't want to see it implemented in PoE 2. And I also see that the system they do have, is bad. The community keeps asking for it. But I don't think they realize that, it's also a large reason why this game didn't have more mainstream appeal.

"

Lynk#4447 wrote:

While i'd love to play SSF and ignore trading, at the same time it's what makes many people feel like the stuff they find is actually worth something.

You're agreeing with my perspective without even realizing it here. You just need to take the thought a few steps further.

If you're playing the game in SSF. And all the loot dropping feels worthless.

And the only way the gear has worth, is in the trade enabled economy. Then what is the issue here?

Is it perhaps, that loot is bad? Is it perhaps, that the game is balanced around an economy, and it limits player enjoyment in the game, like finding good loot might help with?

"

Lynk#4447 wrote:

It also for me personally gives the game a sense of community when i can share items with friends or the guild and simply give them something i find and dont have use for.
And since community is something thats kinda relevant for many people when its about longterm player retention, i'm not sure if removing it would be the best option.

I agree. Being able to trade items between friends is a great thing in any game. I just don't think it works well on a grand scale, like PoE has implemented. Having an economy like this, means that instead of finding loot, all you're doing is buying it. It cheapens the whole experience.

Getting that dope 2 hander from a friend though? Well, now you're bonking enemies together. It's far more enjoyable. Trade done right is a benefit to a game. When it's done wrong. Like the point of my post here, it negatively impacts a lot of the game.

"

Lynk#4447 wrote:

As for the whole "Bad PoE1 Players, Bad Streamers, Bad whatever"-bashing.
Its incredibly all these people that want to have the game essentially be single player and play SSF, care so much about what other people do when they literally right now in the game can just play SSF and not care about what other people do at all.

I completely agree. I think most players want a nice solo experience in this game. Or maybe only with friends.

However, the issue you're failing to realize. And you even said it yourself.

The loot feels worthless in SSF. It's not an enjoyable experience. It's more of a challenge than even just playing in normal mode is, and that's not what players are looking for.

I would play solo, and likely only with friends. If they made a solo experience that was actually good. And not aimed at making the game more challenging. This is what many players would want in this game.

This is also the point of this post. Because pointing out that Crafting/Trading, and the Economy being the reasons that this isn't possible. To have a good experience in the game. Is important. When people realize this is why the game is so bleh for so many players. Then changes can happen that make the game better, and more enjoyable, for more people.

"

Cyriac_Darakus#1022 wrote:

What negativeley impacts the game is all the people who don't want to craft or trade. Go play something else....

If trading wasnt a pain in the ass requiring a third party site, I might get into it but as it stands...nah.

It's 2025 now. Time for a goddamn Auction House.

Crafting is fine and trading is not necessary at all. It's literally cheating and you can beat the game just fine without doing it.

I also really dislike the current system. Nothing about it feels good.

When it comes to crafting, PoE2 increased the ridiculous amount of gambling that many complained about instead of decreasing, but did remove some excess currencies and simplify.
Sadly they did this to appeal to non-thinkers and to #cent who have gambling as mandatory component of games, and not to their player base.
Gambling is an addiction for many and it is a bigger market in #ina than even the people trafficking that is so popular in the U#.

Bowing to #cent and feeding off weak minded peoples gambling addictions is one thing. Using holding company type tactics is another.
They said PoE would never cost money. Apparently PoE2 was made so that they could circumvent that promise without backlash, even charging for early access...
(Note that I got the free access. I just don't like how they are selling re-labelled PoE1.)

PoE2 was emphasized as the big solution that would allow GGG to fix all the problems in PoE1.
PoE2 WAS a solution.... for enabling payment outside of visual microtransactions(-), enabling #cent additions(-) and for using the diablo style game engine to suck in more players(+).

Not only did they not fix most of the problems, but they even regurgitated old ones that had already been proven bad or very unpopular in PoE1.
Is it because they really look down on the console and diablo players so much? They think it will work this time and that the new group will drown out the original 'problem' PoE1 players. Might be true.
Has GGG been learning from the 'Slave Mason' politics and using re-labelling and population erosion to get their way without the game dying? Gross.

In the long run, regardless of what they do with crafting or anything else, PoE2 will be a decent game and have a fan base.
It has to.
It has most of the developed content from PoE1 (Which they can now charge for upfront), engine and graphics from Diablo(Since others failed Mr D, who is now donating GGG), increase in silent RMT licenses from asia access which was originally blocked and enough gambling component to atleast keep a 'numbers' portion and never get labelled as 'dying'.

The only way crafting will be removed, is if they get the 'pay to make unique' system from PoE1 with the 'Pay for unique' system from Diablo properly integrated and working.
Early Access is just a lure/holding account. The full release will be the big tell for what kind of game it will be.

"

Belurges#7110 wrote:

When it comes to crafting, PoE2 increased the ridiculous amount of gambling that many complained about instead of decreasing, but did remove some excess currencies and simplify.
Sadly they did this to appeal to non-thinkers and to #cent who have gambling as mandatory component of games, and not to their player base.
Gambling is an addiction for many and it is a bigger market in #ina than even the people trafficking that is so popular in the U#.

Bowing to #cent and feeding off weak minded peoples gambling addictions is one thing. Using holding company type tactics is another.
They said PoE would never cost money. Apparently PoE2 was made so that they could circumvent that promise without backlash, even charging for early access...
(Note that I got the free access. I just don't like how they are selling re-labelled PoE1.)

PoE2 was emphasized as the big solution that would allow GGG to fix all the problems in PoE1.
PoE2 WAS a solution.... for enabling payment outside of visual microtransactions(-), enabling #cent additions(-) and for using the diablo style game engine to suck in more players(+).

Not only did they not fix most of the problems, but they even regurgitated old ones that had already been proven bad or very unpopular in PoE1.
Is it because they really look down on the console and diablo players so much? They think it will work this time and that the new group will drown out the original 'problem' PoE1 players. Might be true.
Has GGG been learning from the 'Slave Mason' politics and using re-labelling and population erosion to get their way without the game dying? Gross.

In the long run, regardless of what they do with crafting or anything else, PoE2 will be a decent game and have a fan base.
It has to.
It has most of the developed content from PoE1 (Which they can now charge for upfront), engine and graphics from Diablo(Since others failed Mr D, who is now donating GGG), increase in silent RMT licenses from asia access which was originally blocked and enough gambling component to atleast keep a 'numbers' portion and never get labelled as 'dying'.

The only way crafting will be removed, is if they get the 'pay to make unique' system from PoE1 with the 'Pay for unique' system from Diablo properly integrated and working.
Early Access is just a lure/holding account. The full release will be the big tell for what kind of game it will be.

I saw the direction PoE 1 went in shortly after launch. It was clear they had a taste for the money, and it just kept going downhill from there.

I'm really hoping they think twice before doing that system in here too.

There's nothing wrong with the company making money. But there are significantly better ways to do it, than forcing an economy into a game, and then preying on addicts with gambling tendencies. It just cheapens the whole experience.

This is why I'm here in PoE 2, advising against doing this, and just aiming to make the game more enjoyable for more players. They can still make MASSIVE amounts of money off Microtransactions just from more people buying cosmetics. And I feel that's a fair system that I can support. But the main reason I didn't support PoE 1 More, was because it was about selling stash tabs, and then creating more loot, to sell more tabs. And then players with addictive tendencies, were dumping thousands on the game in terms of supporter packs.

Overall just an unhealthy system.

PoE 2 seems like they're not quite ready to get rid of the systems holding the game back. Half the issues with the game are the attempts at implemented these old mechanics back in.

Oh well. Lets hope they can turn the ship around before it gets worse.

I think crafting, economy, trading could definitely be removed. But the issue is that, if microtransactions are to support this game. They actually need to be microtransactions. Spending 25$ on a set of footprints or some wings for your character is absurd. 3-5$, and you'll sell 20x the amount. Guarantee it.

They just have a poorly fleshed out money model for this game. They price things for whales and addicts. Who have no problem dropping 150$ on something. But that isn't going to fly with 95% of everyone else.

"

Carinyc#0837 wrote:

I also really dislike the current system. Nothing about it feels good.

It never felt good to me either.

,

I'm interested to see what GGG does with this feedback. Will we get better loot? SSF mode with enhanced loot with no option to migrate to trade? Or will they nerf absolutely everything to hell and make it feel worse? Or will they do nothing and claim it's fine? There's probably an equal chance of any of those happening in my experience lol.

Personally I'm a fan of PoE's crafting system but also feel it could use a dose of determinism that something like Last Epoch does VERY well.

While I have an absolutely disgusting amount of hours of enjoyment out of the first game I was very much hoping for something completely different while being the same genre with PoE2 and am still hoping that's what the game turns into.

"

Saf3tyhazard#3440 wrote:

I'm interested to see what GGG does with this feedback. Will we get better loot? SSF mode with enhanced loot with no option to migrate to trade? Or will they nerf absolutely everything to hell and make it feel worse? Or will they do nothing and claim it's fine? There's probably an equal chance of any of those happening in my experience lol.

Personally I'm a fan of PoE's crafting system but also feel it could use a dose of determinism that something like Last Epoch does VERY well.

While I have an absolutely disgusting amount of hours of enjoyment out of the first game I was very much hoping for something completely different while being the same genre with PoE2 and am still hoping that's what the game turns into.

Who knows, I'd at least like them to consider it, because IMO, it's the thing that's really stopping this game from more mainstream appeal.

People who play ARPG's, want loot.

And yes, that's my hope too. PoE 2 doesn't need to be a PoE 1 copy paste, and it currently feels like they half-way attempted that.

I didn't like the direction PoE 1 went in. I felt like the best parts of the game were over-shadowed by the gambling loot system and trading. And it tanked the games balance in so many ways.

Really hope PoE 2 can just be a fun experience for people this time.