Controversial AF. Crafting negatively impacts this game.

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Blasphemous84#2190 wrote:

Man.

This is an absolutely perfect post. I really, really hope people at GGG read it and take it to heart, but I can almost guarantee they won't.

Between PoE 1 and 2 I've put in over 1000 hours, and I have never - NEVER - looted an endgame piece of gear off the ground. How that's considered a good system is beyond me.

Crafting just sucks. Who wants to waste currency crafting on a base item 999 times and failing before finally getting the piece they want on the 1000th try? That is terrible gameplay.

So what do people do? They farm currency and hoard it. They go to the trade site. The most exciting thing about loot in PoE is that moment when you finally farmed enough orbs so you can just buy what you want from someone else. We're all playing Orb Tycoon.

It's really, really bad and it ruins an otherwise great game. GGG set out to make the best ARPG combat the world has ever seen and they nailed it. PoE 2's combat is insanely good, but the trading / crafting system make it all for naught.

In addition, I'd like to point out that this D2 style inventory shit is 30 years old at this point. It wasn't great then and it's downright abysmal now. I have to leave maps 2-3 times to identify, disenchant and/or sell. It takes so much time away from the thing that makes the game great - the combat. When a single shield can take up 1/3 of my inventory, it's not smart. It's not engaging. It's just not fun.

They gotta sell stash tabs though, I guess.

Yup. Been playing this game for like 11 years. Most valuable thing i've gotten since I don't enjoy the game past 85ish due to the required and forced crafting/trading is an exalt.

I get why people like the crafting. It's gambling essentially. And plays off peoples addictive tendencies, keeps them hooked that way. I'd just much rather the gameplay loop be solid, and the loot be solid instead.

It only really awards the people at the top. 5-10% of the playerbase. Everyone elses experience is worse because of the forced economy.

It negatively impacts you is what you meant to say.

You've played the original for 11 years and you're suggesting they change their method? Why, it's worked for 11 years.. and it's not gonna just stop and fail because you and a handful of people do not enjoy it.

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QticaX#4168 wrote:

It negatively impacts you is what you meant to say.

You've played the original for 11 years and you're suggesting they change their method? Why, it's worked for 11 years.. and it's not gonna just stop and fail because you and a handful of people do not enjoy it.

No, it negatively impacts most players.

Hey, lets do a bit of a thought experiment. How many hours in PoE do you have, and how much money have you spent on it?

Do you think you're an 'average' player, and thus capable of speaking on the issues that they encounter without bias?

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

QticaX#4168 wrote:

It negatively impacts you is what you meant to say.

You've played the original for 11 years and you're suggesting they change their method? Why, it's worked for 11 years.. and it's not gonna just stop and fail because you and a handful of people do not enjoy it.

No, it negatively impacts most players.

Hey, lets do a bit of a thought experiment. How many hours in PoE do you have, and how much money have you spent on it?

Do you think you're an 'average' player, and thus capable of speaking on the issues that they encounter without bias?

This top trading crafting has been complained about for years almost a decade and GGG has stated exactly why they won't make and automated AH or want crafting the way it is...

BECAUSE it will make the game to easy. You would get all your gear so fast then quit playing... I think you should do some research because this is something they stand firm on and it will not change.. it hasn't for a decade.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

QticaX#4168 wrote:

It negatively impacts you is what you meant to say.

You've played the original for 11 years and you're suggesting they change their method? Why, it's worked for 11 years.. and it's not gonna just stop and fail because you and a handful of people do not enjoy it.

No, it negatively impacts most players.

Hey, lets do a bit of a thought experiment. How many hours in PoE do you have, and how much money have you spent on it?

Do you think you're an 'average' player, and thus capable of speaking on the issues that they encounter without bias?

He has a great point. 11 years is a lot of time and you are still here. So it seems to me they got something right. I think the complaints are a byproduct of the experience the game provides. There are ups and downs and that's the good thing about it.

I am what could be considered a new player, i started playing in Sentinel league!
I was drawn in by PoE1 reputation of having the most complex endgame systems in combination with nearly endless character customization.

Needless to say, i was not disappointed - on the contrary, i grew to love this game very much, despite or maybe even because of all the obstacles and challenges it threw in my way.

One thing became very obvious very fast - i really dont like trading. It is simply not for me. But i know quite a lot of people who love the trading and economy, they almost play it as a game of its own. I can respect that, even if its not for me. My path to becoming a 100% SSF player was only a matter of time.

And as much as i disliked trading, there was on particular system that fascinated me like no other, more or less right from the start: crafting.

Crafting in PoE1 is such a joy for me. Its such a deep system in PoE1, you can put hours upon hours in it and still learn so much. You can plan your entire league around it, structure your whole progression.
But you can also just essence slam some fractures to get any type of gear to make almost all builds functional on a basic level.
Its reputation makes it seem a lot harder than it actually is.
Its a brilliant system!

But what boggles my mind and i hope i get some answers:
If you dont like trading and you dont like crafting, arguably 2 of the most refined and most integral systems of PoE1, why even bother playing the game?
For its combat?! Its graphics?

"

QticaX#4168 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

QticaX#4168 wrote:

It negatively impacts you is what you meant to say.

You've played the original for 11 years and you're suggesting they change their method? Why, it's worked for 11 years.. and it's not gonna just stop and fail because you and a handful of people do not enjoy it.

No, it negatively impacts most players.

Hey, lets do a bit of a thought experiment. How many hours in PoE do you have, and how much money have you spent on it?

Do you think you're an 'average' player, and thus capable of speaking on the issues that they encounter without bias?

This top trading crafting has been complained about for years almost a decade and GGG has stated exactly why they won't make and automated AH or want crafting the way it is...

BECAUSE it will make the game to easy. You would get all your gear so fast then quit playing... I think you should do some research because this is something they stand firm on and it will not change.. it hasn't for a decade.

Yeah everybody would quit a league after like 3 weeks

"

QticaX#4168 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

QticaX#4168 wrote:

It negatively impacts you is what you meant to say.

You've played the original for 11 years and you're suggesting they change their method? Why, it's worked for 11 years.. and it's not gonna just stop and fail because you and a handful of people do not enjoy it.

No, it negatively impacts most players.

Hey, lets do a bit of a thought experiment. How many hours in PoE do you have, and how much money have you spent on it?

Do you think you're an 'average' player, and thus capable of speaking on the issues that they encounter without bias?

This top trading crafting has been complained about for years almost a decade and GGG has stated exactly why they won't make and automated AH or want crafting the way it is...

BECAUSE it will make the game to easy. You would get all your gear so fast then quit playing... I think you should do some research because this is something they stand firm on and it will not change.. it hasn't for a decade.

And you didn't answer the questions.

Odd, because if you had. Maybe you'd actually realize what the issue is.

I am someone who loves crafting and currency drops. I find trading exciting for the most part. In early access there are 100's of thousands of people playing so the trade experience hasn't been as great.

There basically is no crafting in poe2. I'm not sure what you're upset about? They have removed and gutted almost everything that made poe1's crafting engaging. I would like to see more of what we had in poe1. A more in depth forced crafting system to where if we spend the time to learn it you don't have to interact with trading at all as far as buying outside of some uniques. You can craft near best in slot gear with the currency you have farmed and solve any defensive or offensive issues you're having. You pick up a base with the item level you want and roll the currency that you want and force certain outcomes to take you to the next level. GGG missed on this so far in early access. Not being able to craft forces you to interact with trading much more.

I'm not gonna be the guy who say's go play D4 but it certainly sounds like you want more of a Diablo style of loot system. In my opinion Diablo 4's loot system is one of the most boring system's in the genre and I would hate for POE to go down that path.

Right now the crafting is near irrelevant and barebones at the mininum. It isn't engaging whatsoever and it's a 1 and done slam and hope you hit. The crafting sucks in this game. Essences are absolute garbage and a waste of time.

You do have SSF however if you'd like to not engage with trading at all so that's an option for you. But SSF sounds terrible with the limited crafting that we have.

"

way2stupid#9491 wrote:

I am what could be considered a new player, i started playing in Sentinel league!
I was drawn in by PoE1 reputation of having the most complex endgame systems in combination with nearly endless character customization.

Needless to say, i was not disappointed - on the contrary, i grew to love this game very much, despite or maybe even because of all the obstacles and challenges it threw in my way.

One thing became very obvious very fast - i really dont like trading. It is simply not for me. But i know quite a lot of people who love the trading and economy, they almost play it as a game of its own. I can respect that, even if its not for me. My path to becoming a 100% SSF player was only a matter of time.

And as much as i disliked trading, there was on particular system that fascinated me like no other, more or less right from the start: crafting.

Crafting in PoE1 is such a joy for me. Its such a deep system in PoE1, you can put hours upon hours in it and still learn so much. You can plan your entire league around it, structure your whole progression.
But you can also just essence slam some fractures to get any type of gear to make almost all builds functional on a basic level.
Its reputation makes it seem a lot harder than it actually is.
Its a brilliant system!

But what boggles my mind and i hope i get some answers:
If you dont like trading and you dont like crafting, arguably 2 of the most refined and most integral systems of PoE1, why even bother playing the game?
For its combat?! Its graphics?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just want people to wake up and realize that the amount of people that like the economy system in this game, are not representative of the majority of players. And it's especially bad on the forums, because most players don't care enough to voice an opinion on a game if it's bad, they just stop playing. And then on the forums/reddit, you've got people with 20 supporter packs talking about how good crafting is. It's out of touch.

You read reviews on this game and most people will stop playing when exposed to the reality of the crafting/trading system after they finish the acts. Most of my friends have quit this game over the years, people who all grew up loving ARPG's and still play other ones.

Why do I play? Because I like the builds, I like the world. And I always quit when the game becomes crafting simulator. I come back once or twice a year to play a character or two to 85 and leave. Like the majority of players.

And PoE 2 has a chance to actually set itself apart from PoE 1. We can keep the economy intact in PoE 1 and people can go play that if they want it.

The reality is, either GGG makes a game that appeals to the whales and addicts of PoE 1. Or they make a game that has more widespread appeal. But with the game being separated, it's clear they're trying to change the game. And feedback on systems like this is necessary if the game is to have a more widespread appeal.

"

Jooker360#7907 wrote:

He has a great point. 11 years is a lot of time and you are still here. So it seems to me they got something right. I think the complaints are a byproduct of the experience the game provides. There are ups and downs and that's the good thing about it.

I mean, the last 5-6 years in PoE have been joining in to play one or two characters to level 80 something. Because I enjoy the builds and the passive tree and blowing enemies up.

Which is why I'm saying they should.. focus on that sort of gameplay, because tons of players are in the same situation I am, or never continue playing when they realize that crafting/trading is necessary.


And that's the point of this thread. To stop PoE 2 becoming another crafting simulator for a small percentage of players that like it. To actually ask GGG to make the game different. Not just copy and paste systems into the game.

They separated it for a reason. I would assume that's because they're looking to change the formula and get rid of the bad systems that is stopping the game from more mainstream appeal.