Controversial AF. Crafting negatively impacts this game.

TLDR; I just want option to scry the crafting result like POE with Orb of Scouring.

Bring the vendor receipe back! Don't care if it'll be a new NPC dedicated for such function and HO invite only!

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

You had your own experience with the game, thats great. But you specifically said "D2 didn't have an economy or crafting". No......you are just....wrong. And the MAJORITY of diablo 2 players would take offense to that statement, as I did.

Oh, but it didn't. The players created one. The game never shipped with a trading system, or balance around an economy.

The economy was also, entirely optional. You could play the ENTIRE GAME. Without ever interacting with it. Once.

And yes. I'm sure 'the majority' of diablo 2 players were online. When like 80% of houses back then didn't have internet. Right right. There's no need to lie.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

It's just like playing single player in D2. In fact, its even balanced BETTER than D2 single player ever was. Good luck finding high end runes by yourself to make multiple runewords. The same time it probably took you to do that, you'd have a piece of mirror-tier gear or two in PoE SSF.

You say D2 was unbalanced. And yet. I could beat the entire game entirely off the drops that dropped for me when I was playing. And get this. Without any rune words.

And now you're telling me that PoE is more balanced, because you can get high end crafted gear with tons of tiny little orbs?

Not sure im following. Do you only value high end gear or something?

What about playing the game? Ya know, beating bosses.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Again....there is SSF.

I made a thread, explaining "LOOT IN POE IS BAD BECUZ ECONOMY WE NEED FIX 4 PLAYER ENGOYMUNT"

And your solution. Is to play SSF. Which is all about. Get this..

Interacting with the crafting system, and having to do so because... Drum roll please.

The loot is bad.



Why are you here bro? Seriously.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

There is ZERO DEBATE on whether the game "needs an economy". That's an impossible debate to have. It exists because trade exists. That is almost the same as debating "why do we need bows in the game" or "why do we need x amount of acts in the campaign?".

Because that is what the game IS. We would sooner have all the servers close on PoE 1 and PoE 2, then for trade to be removed. It's a non-starter argument.

And my entire point is that it doesn't have to be.

Games are made every day, that don't have economies. And can still give players thousands of hours of enjoyment.

PoE has never needed one.

You can say there's zero debate, but there clearly is. You just don't want your opinion challenged. And I can see why. You didn't bother reading, or understanding anything that was written.

Thanks for stopping by. Maybe you should just go play SSF.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

.

The players did not create a trade system in D2. Blizzard did. Nice try though. Guess what also started that way? PoE 1 beta!

Everything, literally every single thing you just wrote that was true of YOUR experience with single player D2.....is ALSO TRUE of both PoE 1 and PoE 2. I don't understand your complaints anymore.

You literally described SSF. To a T.

You don't need BiS 6 top tier mods to clear everything PoE 2 (and PoE 1) throws at you. You can, fairly easily, get geared up to clear endgame maps and bosses in PoE 2 in SSF. Thousands have already done it.

You are complaining about nothing, and comparing it to a game that was HARDER in every way to achieve the things you describe.


Dare I say that your TRUE problem is an inability to adapt to the game, and you are trying to find SOMETHING to blame and you landed on trade and the economy for some reason? That whole last post just...didn't make a lick of sense.


OF COURSE IT HAS TO BE IN THE GAME!!! That is what the devs put in the game. That is what the devs had in PoE 1 for 12+ years. Again I refer you to my previous points: why are there bows in the game? Why is there a Sorceror class? Why do you fight Geonor at the end of Act 1? Because that is what the game was developed to have. It is only D3/D4 levels of stupidity that lead to core elements being ripped out: because they are shipped broken. There is nothing broken (fundamentally) about PoE trade.

You aren't talking some small tweak, like an overpowered mod or skill, or a bug, or something. You are talking about ripping out a core essential element to the game. PLAY SOLO SELF FOUND. I guarantee you you'll love it. It literally sounds exactly like everything you loved about D2. But it IS a new game, there is a learning curve. D2 overall was easier from beginning to end. PoE 2 is harder, and far larger, but ultimately it is the same experience if you care to even give it the smallest amount of effort to learn.


I am 1000% sure you have never even attempted SSF for any real length of time. You are speaking out of a combination of fear, listening to others on the forums, and ignorance. Or the complexity of the game is just way too much for you and you prefer a far smaller, much less complex d2-like game. But I will leave this thread with this: 1) you are absolutely wrong about most of what you said about d2 (except your own enjoyment) and 2) Everything you described about D2 can be found, with BETTER quality, in the current PoE 2 SSF mode.

You say you put 4000+ hours into D2. How much of your first 100 hours do you remember? Probably none....but I can almost guarantee you had similar frustrations with the game and probably even wanted to break your computer at times. You probably made really terrible characters that couldn't do anything in hell, multiple times.

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

I completely agree.

After some discussions on other threads ( since PoE2 is my first serious interaction with GGG ) where people kindly pointed to me that PoE is more of a trading game in general, I made my own loot filter and I just hide all gear apart from uniques... yup everything I don't care anymore about yellows or this or that.

My 80 lvl monk is happily close to finishing the T8+ maps quest at the moment while only picking up currency, which isn't that much as well ( even with 106% rarity on my gear, which is also silly ) so I can trade things instead of losing everything into the most random crafting that I've ever seen in my life.

Is the experience awesome? No, but definitely better than sorting through 100s of items that are absolutely useless.

And while I don't enjoy spending 30 minutes on a website to find a pair of boots, I do enjoy the actual gameplay so much so for the time being I just bear with it. For how long? No idea, pretty sure it'll get tiresome after a while.

Wait...what? How can you level through the acts with just unique drops?

Trading in PoE1 and PoE2 is terrible, a truly toxic time-wasting activity that has no justifiable reason to exist.

Except of course stash bloat driving premium stash sales.

I have a personal theory that no amount of player feedback regarding the sad state of trading will ever make them change, because their metrics just won't allow it. Stash tabs are so quintessential to their monetization that they will never embrace anything except the current system of extreme stash bloat and god awful trading.

As for the crafting, it's a real shame it's worse than PoE1. I don't think crafting items through currency should go away as a concept, its one of the things that made PoE1 unique. The problem lies in how simplified and poorly thought-out it has become, presumably in an effort to make it "new and fresh" for PoE2.

"

The_Song#4903 wrote:

Bearing in mind the added note that currently this game does not, in fact, have a crafting system at all.

It has two types of gambling.
Gold gambling and orb gambling. Neither is crafting.

Crafting is more deterministic, allowing you to give your item the modifier you want instead of rolling for it.

This!


As an SSF-only player, the lack of crafting and the abysmal drop rates are what vex me the most about POE2 at the moment.

"

tyrespoe#5113 wrote:

Trading in PoE1 and PoE2 is terrible, a truly toxic time-wasting activity that has no justifiable reason to exist.

Except of course stash bloat driving premium stash sales.

I have a personal theory that no amount of player feedback regarding the sad state of trading will ever make them change, because their metrics just won't allow it. Stash tabs are so quintessential to their monetization that they will never embrace anything except the current system of extreme stash bloat and god awful trading.

As for the crafting, it's a real shame it's worse than PoE1. I don't think crafting items through currency should go away as a concept, its one of the things that made PoE1 unique. The problem lies in how simplified and poorly thought-out it has become, presumably in an effort to make it "new and fresh" for PoE2.

I honestly think this game would do better with item enhancements. Not orbs that roll a random affix on an item. And yes, I say this simply because of the way they've monetized the game. I agree with you, they put too much emphasis on stash tabs. The entire system is designed to almost force you to trade or craft, or both. There are definitely better ways to monetize that don't involve selling you stash tabs and various other types of tabs for new drops each league.

I never had an issue enhancing gear. It's a nice little bonus. But I always thought the game was just worse when most of your gear is 'crafted' instead of dropped. That's my main issue with PoE 1 and 2. Is that it's essentially mandatory to create your own items, because 99% of everything that drops is garbage or a crafting base.

That's where the economy ruins the game for me. An ARPG is about the drops, and the gameplay loop. Not picking items up and then spamming orbs on them in base. Not going to a trade website to buy items. And it definitely isn't about the entire game being balanced around the economy.

I think they would benefit from just focusing on player enjoyment. That should be #1. And if they can give us a super enjoyable experience, and then these systems can be added in a way that don't detract from that, then I have no issue. But right now, they seem in direct contradiction of eachother, because so much of the game is balanced around the economy.