im tired of spending time to prepare content to run

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

What do we want: EVERYTHING!
When do we want it: NOW!
What will we do to get it: whine on forum

this pretty much sums up this topic

thats an easy way to have an opinion about this
but there is more to it :) no one is whining here
its feedback ...

No pretty sure that's complaining like if you don't wanna prepare then you aren't going to get rewarded.

you're purposefully not understanding the point now lol.

it is kinda shocking that people actually think clicking 200 times is some sort of a skill or achievement

i also cannot fathom how easily some people mistake content for faux-content. GGG nerfed basic versions of most mechanics to the ground. standard Breach is worthless, drops nothing, spawns nothing - it is 20sec distraction.

you have to boost it to actually enjoy it. i do not see it as a complex system. you either boost it (preferably with pedal to the metal approach) or ignore. sure, there are many tools for that (scarabs, sextants, map rolls) but once you figure it out - and that takes like 30 seconds per league mechanics, it is really trivial - all that is left is 'juicing'. aka 'bulk trading' for items and clicking 200 times for each map session

like since when it is something brag worthy? if people have that much disposable time - sure, click away. but dont call it 'skill' or 'fun'. it is neither

and final note - POE is micro-gambling simulator. dont call pulling rng lever 'work'. John Nobody that joins the game right now might drop a mirror after 4th hour. doped TS juicer might take 4 years despite 'working' 8h a day. it is luck, not work. dont confuse these two

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jsuslak313 wrote:

[Removed by Support]

The very basis of this thread is that you HAVE to spend tons of time preparing any kind of content to play. This is categorically false: you CHOOSE however much time you'd LIKE to spend maximizing your content AND receive rewards commensurate with your time and other investment. But the game also has PLENTY of ways to run content in seconds. You just choose to completely ignore it.

I have yet to see an actual comparison to a game with as much customization of endgame content that PoE has...that does a better job with it. All the comparisons are with games that have a significantly dumbed down version of endgame content, with very little (if any) actual customizable content.

Juicing to the gills is not for everyone: and luckily there are MANY other options open to you!

i dont see any justification for clicking and wasting time preparing so much
all these options could be just 1 click options to activate or deactivate with several up and downsides

"you don't have to do it" or "if you want the rewards you just have to do it" are not a valid defense for poor game design.

In fact both of these takes implicitly acknowledge that there's a problem, while they try to excuse or hand wave them.

Neither one offers an argument that stopping to fiddle and micromanage and parse text is actually fun and an improvement on D2's endgame (which I bring up because POE is supposed to be its spiritual successor).

I'll say it again: I never once stopped and wished I needed to scan 8 lines of jumbled text between every baal run. I've also never wished that game had "get fucked you misread/missed the map mod that bricks your map".

its just unfun... its also the case that the Atlas passive tree could offer a better system with a few keystones and notables that include up sides and downsides or even "you get a random get fucked mod but you get random bonus mod" types of designs. Ruthless has this already.

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alhazred70 wrote:

"you don't have to do it" or "if you want the rewards you just have to do it" are not a valid defense for poor game design.

Despite how much you try to portrait it like that, this is not "poor" game design, it is great layer of depth to customize gameplay.

EDIT: And yes it is OPTIONAL

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Nomancs wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

"you don't have to do it" or "if you want the rewards you just have to do it" are not a valid defense for poor game design.

Despite how much you try to portrait it like that, this is not "poor" game design, it is great layer of depth to customize gameplay.

poor is my subjective value judgment but maybe I need some more 'IMO's in there so fair enough.

I'll ask: is GGG just the only game dev to be smart enough to know that ~2 minute text parsing, inventory and currency micro is fun game design?

I mean name another game that does it?

Also not even all POE systems do this... Delve for example. Delve mods are just there on the overview map. Maps could work the same way, they could even randomize the mods that are there and let you "choose your own path" around or through.

Think about it, you plop your next 10 maps in a pathway across a delve like board call it a "expedition plan" then spice it up with side areas that can lead to random maps.

You'd still have the text parsing mini game, but you wouldn't have the currency micro. Half the pain points is an improvement IMO.

Also they could easily put the map rolling into another abstraction layer. The Atlas tree for one, or a new system of invested preferences

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alhazred70 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

"you don't have to do it" or "if you want the rewards you just have to do it" are not a valid defense for poor game design.

Despite how much you try to portrait it like that, this is not "poor" game design, it is great layer of depth to customize gameplay.

poor is my subjective value judgment but maybe I need some more 'IMO's in there so fair enough.

I'll ask: is GGG just the only game dev to be smart enough to know that ~2 minute text parsing, inventory and currency micro is fun game design?

I mean name another game that does it?

Also not even all POE systems do this... Delve for example. Delve mods are just there on the overview map. Maps could work the same way, they could even randomize the mods that are there and let you "choose your own path" around or through.

Think about it, you plop your next 10 maps in a pathway across a delve like board call it a "expedition plan" then spice it up with side areas that can lead to random maps.

You'd still have the text parsing mini game, but you wouldn't have the currency micro. Half the pain points is an improvement IMO.

Also they could easily put the map rolling into another abstraction layer. The Atlas tree for one, or a new system of invested preferences

yea, I find it great and it is my opinion, also, no other game have it (also a reason why I play PoE and not D3,4 or other arpg - I do play other non arpg stuff tho) Thats why PoE is unique and complex - striping it from complexity would turn it to another walking simulator like Grim Dawn, D3/4, Torchlight.

Also, shallow delve don't do it to this extent, but the deeper you go, the more mods it get - now imagine if they would strip delve from anything complex, leave one biome, one reward room (random) - still fun? not for me.

If you don't enjoy it, don't do it.

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Nomancs wrote:

EDIT: And yes it is OPTIONAL

Just as optional as leveling your skill gems or using your books of skill, putting supports in your linked sockets. And identical and just as fallacious as the argument "if you want engaging combat don't play fast bulds". But the game is balanced around those things, and doesn't have engaging combat even when you purposefully slow down. So what you're really saying is: "pretend the game is better designed than it is", and not using them is a silly attempt to compensate for poor game design... its not making the game better. What you're really saying is: Don't ask for improvements, don't give feedback just let those areas of the game be as good or bad as they are first designed with no feedback from the players at all.

Also I'd point out that GGG very much doesn't agree with your "just don't do it if you don't like it" mindeset and feedback over the years sometimes gets them to change things. So just living with it or ignoring it is neither necessary nor reasonable.

Have you literally never wanted a single thing in POE to be more to your liking and made a suggestion or offered your opinion about it?

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alhazred70 wrote:

What you're really saying is: Don't ask for improvements

What I'm really saying is what I wrote: Don't ask to dumb down the game, we don't need another walking simulator like D3. I would (and I do) pick PoE map system over D3 or other arpg systems that I know of in every scenario.

EDIT: And again, it is perfectly optional, you can just alch and go, don't need to spend time over it.

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Nomancs wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

What you're really saying is: Don't ask for improvements

What I'm really saying is what I wrote: Don't ask to dumb down the game, we don't need another walking simulator like D3. I would (and I do) pick PoE map system over D3 or other arpg systems that I know of in every scenario.

EDIT: And again, it is perfectly optional, you can just alch and go, don't need to spend time over it.

So you've never found a single thing wrong with POE and never offered feedback about that thing?

BTW so far I've been ignoring the "dumb down the game" gambit but there's nothing inherently less deep about putting the map mods into an understandable organized format, making them more intuitive to read, or offloading some of the micro to a better overview system like Delve. You still make choices, but with less fiddling. Maybe a map hopper system where you roll 10 maps with 10 currency and get a jumble of 8 or 10 mods... then you only need to scan the hopper's maps mods once and all 10 maps have some combination of those mods. Tons of ways to improve the system. Color code the mods has been suggested.

The Atlas tree shows the way, there are solutions that would allow you to keep rolling maps and parsing lines of text to your hearts desire, every ~2mins if you like that, and allow other people to no longer have to deal with the micro and the "HAH get wrecked" text parsing. We already see many similar solutions on the tree already.

"Take more of this damage, your maps can not roll reflect"
"you take 10% increased fire dmg, your maps can not roll no recovery"

Now my RF char or my Ele hit bow guy can play the game without "HAHA get fucked you didn't see that line of text after reading 6 mods per map for 200 maps = 1000 lines of text scanned per night.

inb4 15 years from now we discover that scanning massive jumbles of dim text all the time leads to eye damage and we have a wave of blind 40-60 year old gamers who all played POE lol.