I'm sick of zoom meta. (Speed creep created bad combat and game balance)

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Celd wrote:

I don't know if its mentioned, but it feels like drops are based on quantity and not rarity. More speed means more drops means more currency and valuable uniques. This includes drops from pinnacle bosses who have valuable uniques, so defeating many quickly is what more quantity equates to.

I think Chris said something about them wanting to create something that would increase drop quality through increased item rarity or something. Referring to rare drops being more desirable.

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DarkKaine wrote:

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

A lot of the combat has lost its meaning. I don't like dps checks, I like mechanics checks.

100% agree. A game should be built around being beatable with 1HP, no matter how brutally difficult it is. That means the player will not under any circumstance take any source of guaranteed damage, nor should anything ever be sped up to the point that it exceeds human reaction times (roughly 200ms). It's bad because of scaling. It's alright to increase the monsters attack speed and have interesting debuffs on maps, but I think the numbers are just cranked up way too high.
Oh before I forget, there is also no room for jank like offscreen hits.

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

I believe you can have interesting builds without devolving the combat of an arpg to a clicking simulator where you have 0 visual clarity.

That's the price we're paying for wanting to kill lots of stuff quickly. I mean we have to because the rates on just about everything are pretty bad unless you juice the hell out of your maps. We all love large pack sizes and good loot, but again with scaling things spiral out of control. The game and it's drop rates are then balanced around it which creates the need for speed.

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

Zoom meta also brought about some of the worst shitty monster balancing. AN was a good idea, but our characters speed is too obscene for it to have worked.

AN is alright for the most part imo. I really only have issues with insanely tanky enemies. There's no fun in spamming skills on an enemy which has such high defenses and regen that it takes forever for them to die. It also just doesn't make sense to have enemies in a map that are stronger by a magnitude of 20x than the actual boss.

However I do want to add that while this game has it's quirks it's also a big part of why it's so insanely fun. Think about it, do you think Blizzard would ever let a player have 1000% movement speed permanently? They could nerf the hell out of this and have a much cleaner experience but I love this game because I can utterly break it. There's not many games left that let you do that.

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DarkKaine wrote:

However I do want to add that while this game has it's quirks it's also a big part of why it's so insanely fun. Think about it, do you think Blizzard would ever let a player have 1000% movement speed permanently? They could nerf the hell out of this and have a much cleaner experience but I love this game because I can utterly break it. There's not many games left that let you do that.

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

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Why is there no "delete" button for my posts only edit/quote

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

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Celd wrote:

I don't know if its mentioned, but it feels like drops are based on quantity and not rarity. More speed means more drops means more currency and valuable uniques. This includes drops from pinnacle bosses who have valuable uniques, so defeating many quickly is what more quantity equates to.

I think Chris said something about them wanting to create something that would increase drop quality through increased item rarity or something. Referring to rare drops being more desirable.

Yep, basically player speed's floor being so high determines how GGG is balancing drops.

Everything non-zoom suffers as a result. (GGG has said they arent balancing around trade.)

So the shit loot experience is due to the devolved mapping experience.

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Esubane wrote:

Serious zooming only happens at really high investment though. And it's one of reasons people grind this game - to reach this tier of destroying and breaking the content.

League start and early mapping is quite slow paced. Your build doesn't demolish everything in 1 hit and bosses can take quite some time to bring down. Then your character grows but so does the content. To reach silly clearspeeds (mapclear in 60 seconds or less) you need to have a HH and really strong other gear. Which is OK - if you have that much currency invested you deserve to tear apart a regular T16 map in seconds.

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Warvald wrote:

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Esubane wrote:

Serious zooming only happens at really high investment though. And it's one of reasons people grind this game - to reach this tier of destroying and breaking the content.

League start and early mapping is quite slow paced. Your build doesn't demolish everything in 1 hit and bosses can take quite some time to bring down. Then your character grows but so does the content. To reach silly clearspeeds (mapclear in 60 seconds or less) you need to have a HH and really strong other gear. Which is OK - if you have that much currency invested you deserve to tear apart a regular T16 map in seconds.

Thats the thing im worried. I don't care if they nerf how fast you can go, honestly having seen some of that stuff its stupid and doesn't even look fun. But I don't want them to slow down the campaign or even mapping if you don't have a high budget. Most of what I do in league is just alch and go with a few divine build, I don't go at the speed of light and I think this speed is perfectly fine.

Which is why one of the trailer worry me seeing walking/running make me feel we might get a stamina stats.