I'm sick of zoom meta. (Speed creep created bad combat and game balance)

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

First off, the hell's speed creep? You mean the speed of the monsters?

Also why not just play Dark Souls then? You basically want a literal overhaul of the game.

GGG Themselves have been quoted at exilecon that PoE2 will be that overhaul we have been speaking, go check out the in depth discussion on speed creep.

And speed creep is basically player speed in general has kept skyrocketing more and more, which makes them create lots of stacking ground effects, death effects, monster effects, etc.

They do this to keep up with a weird audience they captured who likes the gameplay to devolve into picking up items after seeing a ton of flashing lights in 0.1 seconds. The combat loses its communication.


I HOPE they go through with their vision, and just bite the bullet on losing the players who dont like in-depth combat.

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suszterpatt wrote:

Unfortunately, every time someone brings this up, Chris wheels out his anecdote about how LoL nerfed speed once and it made everyone quit.

Then GGG buff clearspeed some more in the next patch.

yeah. It really disappoints me because I believe John was his name at exilecon instilled a LOT OF FAITH in me as a player when he addressed speed creep as such a severe issue, and discussed on having slow adjustments over time.

Ultimately, the really cool and reactive gameplay you see in the poe2 trailers will just... not exist. because the zoom craving players literally dont want well communicated combat, just a one-button-explosion (which again can be fun for 4-5 years but loses its luster imo) and then spending more time just picking up loot with an uber-strict loot filter.

HH encourages zoom meta.

Timed leagues necessitate the zoom meta.

In order for us to do something about this incessant need to go fast, GGG first needs to stop adding content that punishes you for not being fast enough, as in remove the timers in these problem leagues. After that, rework or remove the chase unique that turns any non-summoner build into a 1-minute mapping nightmare.

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Iggy5150 wrote:

In the current state of the game -which I don't necessarily like- zoom zoom is necessary for item drops. It's nearly impossible to drop a good rare in this game so we need to kill more monsters to drop more currency and bases in order to craft better items.

I would agree with your point if this game was like d2, where rare items are never perfect, many uniques are BiS, and crafting is limited, so you actually should be identifying all rares, specially jewelry. I would like PoE2 to have a bit of d2 in this regard.

+1


I'd like to add:

- Crafting should not be able to create the strongest items in the game - only drops should drop the most powerful. (adjustments to crafting costs, drop quantity of rares and currency, mod pool and mod tiers are of course necessary for this to work).

- xp needs to increase to make less mobs and longer fights worth it.


on a sidenote:

- extreme xp farming (5 ways, Breachstones, etc.) needs to be addressed. It's a very complicated issue and I have to admit that I do not have a solution on hand for this, but I think it's not good for the game. I made 8 lvl 100 chars this league just to see how far I could push myself to endure the monotony and it's embarrassingly easy.

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Antigegner wrote:

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Iggy5150 wrote:

In the current state of the game -which I don't necessarily like- zoom zoom is necessary for item drops. It's nearly impossible to drop a good rare in this game so we need to kill more monsters to drop more currency and bases in order to craft better items.

I would agree with your point if this game was like d2, where rare items are never perfect, many uniques are BiS, and crafting is limited, so you actually should be identifying all rares, specially jewelry. I would like PoE2 to have a bit of d2 in this regard.

+1


I'd like to add:

- Crafting should not be able to create the strongest items in the game - only drops should drop the most powerful. (adjustments to crafting costs, drop quantity of rares and currency, mod pool and mod tiers are of course necessary for this to work).

- xp needs to increase to make less mobs and longer fights worth it.

Reward system definitely needs tweaking to adjust for speed creep as well, yeah.

The fact someone on d2 got many bers for a "Ring of Order" with +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 random stats says a lot.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

HH encourages zoom meta.

Timed leagues necessitate the zoom meta.

In order for us to do something about this incessant need to go fast, GGG first needs to stop adding content that punishes you for not being fast enough, as in remove the timers in these problem leagues. After that, rework or remove the chase unique that turns any non-summoner build into a 1-minute mapping nightmare.

Agree on timed league mechanics,

heavy disagree on hh as far as needing to remove it. It can be adjusted, but it's a symptom not the disease.

You can certainly zoom and 1shot t16s especially in a group basically at league start, without a HH.

New keystone:

"Speed makes me dizzy"
(Disabled when in a party.)

Increases to movement and action speed are ignored.

100% reduced cooldown recovery of blink skills.

Non-blink travel skills are disabled.

80% chance to fire only a single projectile.

80% chance for ancestral mirages to not appear when you use a strike skill.

Gain up to 1000% increased item quantity, based on proximity.

Every second, inflict Charitable on nearby Enemies for 15 seconds.
(Charitable is a debuff which applies a 100% increased item quantity on the affected target, stacking up to 15 times.)

Incursion and legion timers have 1000% slower countdown.

Nearby Enemies have 50% reduced action speed.

Nearby Enemies have 50% reduced Cooldown Recovery Rate.

50% reduced flask charges used

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

I've found myself significantly less engaged every league since harbinger.
I just zoom meta to 36/40 or 40/40 and go to a different game.

I think it was pretty damn fun around the time of Perandus/Prophecy league. But the glitz and glam wears down after a few years.

A lot of the combat has lost its meaning. I don't like dps checks, I like mechanics checks.

I believe you can have interesting builds without devolving the combat of an arpg to a clicking simulator where you have 0 visual clarity.

Zoom meta also brought about some of the worst shitty monster balancing. AN was a good idea, but our characters speed is too obscene for it to have worked.

Came here to leave this feedback after seeing the PoE2 trailer and seeing the pacing/clarity of combat there. It's gorgeous.

Hope GGG follows the vision.

It's your choice to play zoom zoom builds. There are option of slower builds. No one is forcing you to play zoom meta.

You want extra slow? There is Ruthless mode, just for you

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gageris wrote:

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

I've found myself significantly less engaged every league since harbinger.
I just zoom meta to 36/40 or 40/40 and go to a different game.

I think it was pretty damn fun around the time of Perandus/Prophecy league. But the glitz and glam wears down after a few years.

A lot of the combat has lost its meaning. I don't like dps checks, I like mechanics checks.

I believe you can have interesting builds without devolving the combat of an arpg to a clicking simulator where you have 0 visual clarity.

Zoom meta also brought about some of the worst shitty monster balancing. AN was a good idea, but our characters speed is too obscene for it to have worked.

Came here to leave this feedback after seeing the PoE2 trailer and seeing the pacing/clarity of combat there. It's gorgeous.

Hope GGG follows the vision.

It's your choice to play zoom zoom builds. There are option of slower builds. No one is forcing you to play zoom meta.

You want extra slow? There is Ruthless mode, just for you

None is forcing you, yes. Nobody is forcing you to play tennis without a tennis racquet either - try it ;p

But to be honest, people will always try to go for speed (no matter how slow you make the game) in order to farm faster and thus obtain more. It's a complicated issue. I just don't like the "you have a choice" argument because it's not entirely wrong but very, very weak.

It isn't complicated really they just need to remember that speed is its own reward without mechanics directly rewarding speed as well.

Take legion for example, not only does a fast character get significantly more loot, they also encounter the mechanic faster. The result is a fast character isn't getting a linear increase as they should.

Simplest solutions to this are things like expedition where your initial choice is just that, a choice, rather than being based on character speed to begin with. Fast characters still clear the encounter they setup faster as they should but they aren't double dipping due to their speed.

Players generally behave like any suggestion of removing speed is terrible and it'll go to just being snail paced but it really won't, speed is the core precept of ARPG design as its the most noticeable form of player power. Even in "slower games" a good character goes far faster than a slow one and its focused as a stat after a certain point.

GGG don't always screw their paradigm up either a great deal of the speed meta is actually how player mentality and approach to the game has changed over time. I think measuring anything in div/hr is completely degenerate for example but it has become increasingly popular for players to focus speed in search of a higher and higher currency earner.

My old man yells at cloud moment about all this is GGG have created, permitted and encouraged far too many crutches for a game purported to have challenging endgame and crutches just feed the speed demon. Just look at mageblood, its ludicrously rare/expensive while simultaneously allowing you to run even a shit build at maximum speed once you get it. Its no wonder players focus on earnings and going faster and faster.