The Self Found League

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

You have signed up for Path of Exile, where trading is one of the features of the game, not "a fucking hack'n'slash game" as if there were a generic archetype that would be used to criticise all the specific games that are more or less related to the genre. PoE is PoE, not "a fucking hack'n'slash game". And why the fuck have almost all sfl supporters to think that once you start using the trading system, you're playing a virtual trading game, sitting in Lioneye's watch 24/7 and not killing things ? The trading system requires almost no knowledge, and it takes 1 minute to sell something to someone asking it from you, and I don't buy items on a daily basis since you don't need upgrades that often do you ? I'm trading, yet almost all of my time spent in the game is "killing satanic shits and gathering loot like a magpie".

You have no other answers that: "Trading is part of the game". I think it is a valid answer. However, can you admit that the current trading system is tedious and conceive that some people would like to be able to ignore it without sacrificing that much efficiency? Nobody here asked for removing the trading system or increasing the drop rate in already existing leagues. What we ask for is a separate league, totally independent of the other ones, without characters or wealth transfer. If the most common suggestion was that the standard league be the parent league of the desired self-found one I could understand your concern, but it is not the case. Why the hypothetical existence of a self-found league bothers you while it does not affect you in any way, shape or form? Hardcore league without character loss seems pointless to me as a self-found league apparently seems pointless to you, despite that I do not ask for the suppression of the actual hardcore league because more choices is always better.

"Bump"

This discussion is stupid. The answers GGG spits out are even more stupid. There are some (and I mean a lot) of players playing strictly self found. Many of them want a SF league. Why is that a hard thing to do? WHY?

GGG counters with: We do not want to split the community even further!

Newsflash, people ARE ALREADY playing SF (no trading) - so in what way are we splitting a community by making a SF league?

And no, the currency rates are not good enough for SF play: No, it is not. Farming for 24 hours to be able to run a descent map (with quality)? Chisels, alch and chaoses takes some time to farm.

Alright I've been, quietly, following this thread for a looooong time. And I feel it's time I spoke up.

I am a 99.99999% self found player. I have purchased, through trade, exactly 1 piece of gear in the year I have played this game. And, quite honestly I could care less if they put in a self found league or not. I followed this thread just to see what would come of things. And I think it's obvious at this point GGG is probably not going to implement this.

So, here's my 2 cents. The only side that has a valid argument is the side FOR the SF league. And the only argument that is valid is the 'climbing that ladder' argument. Now, I can shoot this argument down by saying, If you play this game to climb the ladder then do what it takes to get there.

It's like complaining that freeze mine should do enough dmg to be a valid main skill you can solo with. It's not and never will be. SO what do you do? You don't use it that way. "But I want to!!" To bad ... So you use different skills to play the game or you don't play at all. You want to climb the ladder self found. It wont happen. "But I want to!!" to bad ... So you use trading to climb to the top of the ladder or you don't get to the top.

All other arguments are either petty or based on an opinion that everyone does not share.

I'm not reading through 127 pages of replies, but did you guys go over whether this was standard or hardcore rules or both?

Can do this in hardcore = +1 from me.

Standard-only, I'll just move right along ;)

Hi

Phraz

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GGG counters with: We do not want to split the community even further!

That comment deserves a BULLSHIT award and it is so early in the new year already. GGG wants to finally get around to adding paid leagues as if that wouldn't splinter the supposed POE community and mess the Vaunted Economy... Does GGG even have a clue what they are doing with all these races and semi permanent leagues?

Back in CB I had a idea one day, SFL and didn't even know till I went to forums that others were hard at mentioning this idea in forums.The point: People eventually reach this idea on their own and GGG needs to realize this. HC is for players that think their hardcore whilst still trading, Standard is players that want to trade, SFL would be for players that want to play the game and feel awesome creating items. This game is lacking this mode and players leave for other games because almost all games in this genre offer these modes with better gear drops, wake up GGG!

I think anyone that wants SFL knows that it will take a lot of work on GGG part but with the current race systems and leagues set up it is very doable, but as mentioned before GGG wants to make money so they make the main modes shitty to promote paid leagues, good business platform.

If some dev actually ever reads the forums my suggestions on a free non-paid SFL mode:1)No trades.2)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.3)Increase orb drops.4)Permanent loot allocation.5)New orbs and recipes promoting actual crafting( if the player wanted to take the time and collect the necessary ingredients). Been suggesting these ideas for SFL for over half a year now never a response from dev's...
1+ SFL

cheers

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Juggla1570 wrote:

The only side that has a valid argument is the side FOR the SF league. And the only argument that is valid is the 'climbing that ladder' argument

What about having fun? Can't I just play the game like I played D2, or DS2, or TQ, T1, or almost every other ARPG out there? This game is the special snowflake that can't deliver a similar experience because... TRADE 1s teh WIN?

Shit. It's not rocket science. Find a middle ground where people bitch the least. If making SFL a permanent league achieves this then OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS HAPPY and... we can't have that? I'd figure GGG would make SFL just to shut people up. Meanwhile, number of active users continues to shrink...

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bluefalcon74 wrote:

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Juggla1570 wrote:

The only side that has a valid argument is the side FOR the SF league. And the only argument that is valid is the 'climbing that ladder' argument

What about having fun? Can't I just play the game like I played D2, or DS2, or TQ, T1, or almost every other ARPG out there? This game is the special snowflake that can't deliver a similar experience because... TRADE 1s teh WIN?

Soooo ..... you can't just play the game and have fun? I'm confused about your argument. I don't trade and I have fun. If not trading isn't fun for you then trade. If trading isn't fun for you then dont trade. As you stated, 'It's not rocket science'. The only bonus to having a SF league would be so there's no trading so being on top of the ladder is possible without 'paying to win'.

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Juggla1570 wrote:

All other arguments are either petty or based on an opinion that everyone does not share.

Please name an opinion on any issue in the game that EVERYONE agrees on.

If GGG wants to say that trading is a core feature then thats their call. I think it just feels strange to people to look at the game that way. How and why is trading a core feature? Wouldn't the game be just as good or better without trading for those who would rather play it that way?

People normally look at a dungeon crawler and think about how much fun it is to find and craft their own items. In this game those two things take a backseat to trading. That seems counter intuitive to me. People can scream that its possible to do SF now all they want but they know as well as anyone else that its playing the game in a way that it was not designed for. Some people will like it sure but most people will see the flaws in trying to play that way.

Edit: It was nice hearing Athene ask for a SFL. At least GGG is hearing about it a lot and thinking about what they can do to improve.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Juggla1570 wrote:

All other arguments are either petty or based on an opinion that everyone does not share.

Please name an opinion on any issue in the game that EVERYONE agrees on.

I freely admit that was a bad statement. But there are plenty of issues that are heavily favored in 1 way or another.

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iamstryker wrote:

If GGG wants to say that trading is a core feature then thats their call. I think it just feels strange to people to look at the game that way. How and why is trading a core feature? Wouldn't the game be just as good or better without trading for those who would rather play it that way?

People normally look at a dungeon crawler and think about how much fun it is to find and craft their own items. In this game those two things take a backseat to trading. That seems counter intuitive to me. People can scream that its possible to do SF now all they want but they know as well as anyone else that its playing the game in a way that it was not designed for. Some people will like it sure but most people will see the flaws in trying to play that way.

Edit: It was nice hearing Athene ask for a SFL. At least GGG is hearing about it a lot and thinking about what they can do to improve.

Ok ... let's compare to SF D2, the game that most ppl consider to be the pinnacle of ARPG's.

-I played that game, like an addict, for a good 8 years. And there were STILL items that I never saw drop. And there are a few items I only saw a few times.
-Gearing up to Farm end game efficiently took months.
-Gearing up to farm end game efficiently and with good MF took another few months.
-Getting the gear you actually wanted took even longer.
After spending a few months getting decent farming gear now it's time to start farming for the gear you actually want. avg 6+ hours of game play to get 1 HR. And you could easily find 5 HR's that you may never use, before you find one that you will. Then you had to find 3+ more of the correct rune. Then you had to find a piece of gear worth putting the runes in, cause you sure as hell aren't stuffing your hard earned HR's into something that isn't exactly what you want. And that's just for your runeword(s).

-Trading was ALWAYS a better way to get the gear you wanted.

Hm this is starting to sound familiar .....

Now please don't get me wrong. I am not saying that there shouldn't be a SFL. I just think that screaming about drop rates and RNG Crafting is not a valid argument to say that a SFL should be required in the game. Rose colored glasses is an affliction that is hard to get around. That is not sarcasm. I have been behind those rims more times that I can count ;)

I will also say that anyone who says there shouldn't be a SFL is an idiot. They should play their trading game and allow us to play our SF game. If they want better drop rates they could play in the SFL. If they want to trade they could play in other leagues.