The Self Found League
" People's complaining made d3 a very easy game , difficulty was nice in the beginning cept for the tounge dudes and teleporters in the end of a3. |
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" The difficulty of D3 was the least of its problems. Standard Forever
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That League would be awesome. LIKE IT!
GGG, go for it pls :p |
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Last edited by Rataraxia#4173 on May 27, 2017, 8:41:49 AM
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So, I can understand some of the appeal to the initial SLF idea… I have ran in races that allowed partying and went solo only to end up an extra 50-100+ places behind those with a group after an hour or so. Since I do not have a team, sometimes I would prefer a solo race instead of joining public groups in a “parting allowed” race.
I could even imagine maybe a one-week solo race? However, this idea of making it a permanent league? It’s beyond reason, and a great example of how so many people (is this “group think”?) can be so wrong about what they think will make the game better. One: it is absurd. PoE is an online ONLY game, to have a dedicated play mode that is only single player runs against the games premise. Yay! A single player game with built in de-sync so you can really feel like you are really playing a multiplayer game? Not to mention the games developers single source of income being visual MTX – have you ever got all dressed up when your home alone to just look in a mirror? (not saying that some ppl would not pay for them anyway, but you would have to admit it’s a little sad) Two: it would only detract from the game for everyone else. So really, almost all of us spend a great deal of time soloing already – this should really be your last resort play mode. I know that’s just my opinion, but hear me out: that’s fine, you can hate the “public” or not want to join any of your fellow exiles. But realize, there probably are other people that think the same way as you, there is at least a chance you can meet someone and make a friend. Why would you want to eliminate that possibility? I can tell you with absolute certainty (from someone who played d2 ladders with /nofriends for a few years) there is nothing more satisfying than breaking that barrier and making a few buddies, sharing loot and synergizing builds etc.. What a nice feeling to login to a game after a long day at work and be greeted by teammates happy to see you? Seriously! All you guys out there complaining about being burned out, try making some friends, the game can be so much more fun. - note: this is one of the biggest reasons I opposed changing the loot system, there WERE very good reasons/advantages to want to make friends when loot was competitive. Three: This whole idea of more orbs or moar loot for this league is absolutely awful. So, plenty of people already play solo in the various leagues and do JUST FINE, these solo players who just might make some friends or eventually join a group game and enjoy it would be extra attracted to this solo league. Even players that DO group and add to the community would find “more loot” attractive and get drawn in to playing a substandard isolated poor version of the game. (Substandard because of all the features that would be removed for this league – no trade system, no party system, no loot system, no guilds, shared stashes, etc) -it’s not in GGG’s best interest to promote a crippled version of their game – as the other leagues would just look like “less loot” to people who already solo and re-enforce the worst aspects of “you must trade to succeed” bullshit everywhere else. Four: it really, really, really is unnecessary. When people tell you: “you can already play self-found!” It’s not condescending as you might think – you REALLY CAN, and I say this because people really do it! It’s not like the “you can play HC in soft-core because you can just delete your character if you die” you could, but you would also have that option of just changing your mind later. - and just that thought alone would ruin HC, part if playing HC is knowing just how fragile your characters life is, that would be gone. This is not the same thing at all (one is dying, which should be discouraged in all leagues, and the other is grouping, which should be ENCOURGED in all leagues) – this is just resigning yourself to isolation for sake of “competition” with others doing the same thing? In the last one-week race my racing partner died early and went back to nemesis. I carried on playing solo all the way up to lvl 70 before I could start looking for mapping groups – soloing is quite viable and a necessary part of the game just the way it is already –it was very refreshing to finally join groups, if not for that possibility I would have just quit. (Grinding to 70 in the catacombs sucks with self-found gear – knowing map groups were ahead kept me going) Finally, there is only one problem that this solo league idea solves: removing RMT or trading instead of playing to gain advantage. This is the only place I have empathy for the SFL idea… while I don’t have a solution for this problem, consider this: If they have to keep butchering large chunks of the game to make things fairer for some people, then where do you stop? (we already have desync as a design side effect of a system that is harder to cheat/hack in) I mean, is it fair that someone finds a godly mirror worthy rare worth 100’s of ex and others find nothing worth even close to that for years? Maybe, right? Its legit at least. Well, what if they found that item last season, and they went and sold it on some website for “forum currency” and then used the “forum currency” in the next season to buy a nice item from someone else? Now it’s not legit, but really? It’s just splitting hairs. (of course we have no way to know if they didn’t just pay cash for that “forum currency” either) Then you have the whole issue of huge guilds that could effectively share and do anything they want (cross league trades, personal trade for real money etc) they have their own voice chat channels so GGG could not even catch them if they read their guild chat. Even in a closed SFL environment it’s still possible to cheat by sharing an account across a few people – and what about this ladder season? Someone (s) exploited some mechanics and stomped their way to lv 100. Did they exploit the trade system to become super rich in order to win? Nope. GGG needs to do what they can to help keep things from getting out of control – taking action to stop or hamper the big RMT sites is great, banning the occasional blatant JSP users is also good. I just don’t think it gets better than this though. If we have items in game that “feel valuable”, it is because they ARE valuable and that “value” comes from our ability to do what we want with them. (even if it’s just sitting in your stash) Every time we take away freedom to make things fairer, the game itself is diminished. TLDR: just DR it’s okay |
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Figured I'd put in my two cents because this thread is mad popular now...Any direct responses to me should be PM'd to me to make sure I see 'em by the way. First, a disclaimer: This is all my personal opinion obviously do not kill me or flame me or anything just for stating my opinion.
Personally, I don't like the idea of a self found league. I think that it requires a lot of unneeded balancing of the game's current state. I come from the school of thought that believes that time spent on stuff like a self found league would be better spent preparing new content, new skills, new microtransactions, etc. I want new content, new things to experience, not just a loot-buffed version of the game we already have and that's really all this "self found league" would be. I'm a player who really doesn't do any trading unless absolutely necessary (ie I need a unique for a certain build or chromes / fusings / jewellers to make an item usable). I pretty much don't sell any items, only exchange currency. And to me, someone who seems like a prime candidate for a supporter of this league, all it is is a reason for poorer, less social players to not interact or learn about the economy GGG has spent so long nurturing. Let's put this into a real life situation. Pretty much, you're saying that a businessman on Wall Street who works 10+ hours a day trading and making deals and doing business with people should be just as profitable as some guy who casually trades on the stock market. HE SHOULDN'T. Someone who spends all this time learning about the economy and working the economy SHOULD be more rich than someone who dabbles from time to time, or someone who doesn't bother trading at all. You aren't involved in the economy, you aren't helping the economy grow and you aren't putting any currency or items in circulation. You don't deserve to make the same amount of money if you aren't putting in the same effort to make the money. Why should you get more currency if you aren't working for it? In closing, it doesn't make sense to me that players who don't trade and don't contribute to the economy and the growth of the system should get the same reward as those who spend countless hours trading. Self-found is SUPPOSED to be a challenge, that's why it was invented to begin with. By giving away your ability to trade, you cripple yourself a little, and that's the challenge. It's not meant to coddle players who are too lazy or not knowledgable enough to trade efficiently and profitably. |
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" You understate the cost of SFL league. All it takes is spinning up a new server, tweaking some drop rate constants, bind loot on drop, and publish a new league. Also, you use "poorer, less social" as a derogatory term at players who don't want to "learn about the economy". Why are these the attributes that are important? What about players who just want to play the game and pick up their own loot and not have to trade? There are already many games in existence (single player games) just like this. Why is that bad? " Why do we want a game that rewards people for trading? Why is trading a desirable activity? Games are not made to mirror real life; they're made to be fun. There are many games that don't have trading (single-player games) that are still fun. Are these games failures just because they don't have trading? " Why should players have to participate in an economy to get rewards? Why can't they just play the game. Some people just want to play the game without trading and still have the same benefits. Also the trade system kind of sucks right now, so people should be able to opt-out without being penalized. |
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Spoiler
People disagree on what a SFL should look like - some want more orbs to drop, some more items, some better items, some want it strictly solo, some want to be able to group, some want it all to stay the same and just rule out RMT. Your points: 1+2. There are more people enjoying single-player for the "right" reasons than you think. It's not because they are anti-social or because they cannot overcome their shyness, it's because they want to do things their own way: Take breaks or idle any time they want, pick up lots of stuff so they have to TP every couple of minutes, not being restricted by the group on where to go and what to do, make weird builds that cannot hold up dps-wise etc. The fact that PoE is an always-online game means nothing in that context. It's not always-online to enforce group-play but for other reasons: MTX and RMT. But you are right, a strictly solo self-found league is not in GGG's best interest. 3+4. I agree with some points you make, others seem pretty biased. Like this: People playing solo are doing fine. That depends. If "doing fine" means being able to eventually finish the game with a well-built char, then I agree. But the thing is, it more or less stops there. From then on your progression not only slows to a crawl (because you don't have the orbs to reroll maps), but you are blocked out from a lot of content. Want to make an ES char? A critter? Play something with low-life? Any other non-run-of-the-mill build? Make a build based on a unique? Or on a very good rare? Do some advanced crafting? Have several endgame-viable chars with different builds without playing thousands of hours? All of this is not available to you, unless you are veeeeery, veeeeeery paaaaaaatieeeeeeent, like reeeeeeeeaaaally patieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeent, and you'd likely die to old age before you are even close to having seen it all. The other thing is, a SFL is not necessarily a "poor" or "crippled" version of the game. Some would argue that it is the direct opposite. That having to sell stuff in order to be able to buy stuff trivializes the game. That late-game PoE turns into a game of acquisition that is best suited for accountants and not for daring monster-killers. Sure, without trading one aspect that requires a deeper understanding of the game is gone. But it is replaced by something similar. Since you no longer would be able to get your gear via a "shopping list", you must rely on your own knowledge and experience. Without trading everything you don't know or understand directly translates to you not being able to make use of it. So actually it would make the game more "hardcore" than it is now. I fully agree though that a SFL with better drops is a bad idea (what I would want is less trade-dependency for the whole game). Because I think the following would happen: Everybody not happy with the drops would eventually play the SFL. That would make it much harder to make trades for those who are happy with them. Some of them would leave: quit the game or play in the SFL. Those who are left would then have a even harder time to make trades, and more would leave. Eventually playing the non-SFL would be pointless and with only a few die-hards left, non-SFL would basically be dead. A SFL without better drops is another thing though. Only I think not that many people would want to play it. Last edited by Jojas#5551 on Feb 5, 2014, 6:53:31 PM
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Disclaimer: No way am I reading near 130 pages, so what I am about to say has probably been said before to some effect - but I wont have seen it.
So the main reason the SFL likely wont come to fruition is the lack of an agreed upon idea that can be polled for support. My own opinion on the matter is that a SFL wouldn't be worth the effort - just being SF wouldn't really open up a new metagame, merely limit what already exists. Personally, I would like to see a crafting league. The core concepts would be no random loot drops except uniques, transmutation/alch/chance orbs only give the lowest number or prefixes/suffixes for that class of item to avoid RNG gear instead of crafted gear; this is basically the same as getting a loot drop otherwise, extra currency drops to stimulate crafting. Uniques would have to remain because of how build enabling a lot of them are. As for the length? Maybe 2 months, then into standard/hardcore as appropriate (maybe with no currency transferred over - only the gear/gems/etc). This would offer a different sort of metagame - one that I know some of my friends would play if it was available (and spend money, which means better servers for you lot!). It would be temporary, sort of like a seasonal event which a lot of games do. Last edited by Aimeryan#0430 on Feb 7, 2014, 4:11:33 AM
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" self found league basic is that drops will be permanently alocated to a player, then we can start debating about drops, crafting, dificulty etc... self found league was born becouse crafting sucks, so is either a more reliable crafting system (not easier just reliable) like medians honorific/shrine crafting or implementing the self found for those who dont like to spend half if not more of the playing time trading just to be able to reach a big part of the game content. self found league fan http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1 Last edited by caboom#7201 on Feb 6, 2014, 9:10:30 AM
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