What option I have to obtain watchstone from Maven since I never defeat Maven?

omg we have one professional player esport god elite 0.1% player here gentlemen. Watch out darkee there is one person here that will steal the 1st from u.

I can do maven and pretty much any boss BUT I do agreed that its awful to gate a already used mechanic (sextants) behind endgame bosses. Gate new content/uniques/powercreep. But old stuff that u were free to use whenever u wanted is a bad move and feels off.

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Moridin79 wrote:

So you want to run T16's to progress towards....T16's?

I wasn't responding to you, and I think you just like to argue semantics, but I'll give one serious response.

Maven and Uber Elder are beyond T16s, that should be pretty obvious. The exception might be fully juiced (100% deli, double beyond) T16s, sure.

While there are some T16s on the atlas without beating bosses, the main reward for initially beating them will be upgrading lower Tier maps to T16.

But if you can beat Maven and Uber Elder, this is essentially worthless unless you are just farming. Your character progression is already complete, no more power needed. So what was the point?

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Moridin79 wrote:

Strange to run a bossing build during a clear bossing league...

Not sure if you are aware, but atlas reboots and changes stay around for about a year usually, so four leagues, not just one bossing league.

So for the next 3-5 leagues they will be 'bossing' leagues.

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IHellBoundI wrote:

I can do maven and pretty much any boss

So what's the issue?

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Moridin79 wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

I think there's enough incentives to beat them, without gating regular map juicing behind them.

You're thinking in terms of the old system. It's been changed.

Oh, I'm comparing the new system to the previous one? Yes, I am. I know it's been changed. That's what we are discussing...(?)

I'm lost.

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Moridin79 wrote:

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

I can do maven and pretty much any boss

So what's the issue?

The problem is that some people are capable of judging changes based on more than just themselves. You should try it sometime :)

And A LOT of people view "juicing high tier maps" as an earlier stage in progression than "beating Uber Elder, Maven and so on..."

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Moridin79 wrote:

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

I can do maven and pretty much any boss

So what's the issue?

For me? None. But I can see how annoying it is to gate something people used forever behind new stuff and it is a valid criticism. Nobody is complaining that they will not have access to the new op jewel, or 123 chase uniques blablabla but a old, estabilished mechanic that everybody could use if wanted.

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Phrazz wrote:

"

Moridin79 wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

I think there's enough incentives to beat them, without gating regular map juicing behind them.

You're thinking in terms of the old system. It's been changed.

Oh, I'm comparing the new system to the previous one? Yes, I am. I know it's been changed. That's what we are discussing...(?)

I'm lost.

"

Moridin79 wrote:

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

I can do maven and pretty much any boss

So what's the issue?

The problem is that some people are capable of judging changes based on more than just themselves. You should try it sometime :)

And A LOT of people view "juicing high tier maps" as an earlier stage in progression than "beating Uber Elder, Maven and so on..."

Now I could be wrong about the atlas tree, but I believe you're going to have a net gain in juice over the old system. Imagine having all of the passives from every region on every map minus sextants. Seems pretty good to me. Sextants now are just icing when you're being given a much juicier cake.

I'll just leave it at this. Not all content is for all players. OP has been given solutions to the problem. What he and the other "90%" of players do with that information is up to them.

Still no answer on why it fundamentally makes sense to gate easier content behind harder content.

Ignore your entitlement, me vs them tirade for a second.

Gating easy content behind harder content, how does it make sense.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I think this just highlights the disconnect GGG has with the average player. If you look at the percentages of players that have killed Maven (myself included), its ridiculously low. Even with paid carries.

I fully understand aspirational content, and the need for it, but it shouldn't be gatekeeping content for average players. It should be optional, with rewards tied to the challenge. Since when is unlocking the Atlas to tier 16 aspirational?

This isn't a case of FOMO. Its literally a poor design decision that benefits no one. The 1%'ers were always going to do whatever GGG tossed up for endgame, but this decision means that the vast vast majority of players wont get their atlas to full t16 (which was very easy with watchstone, you never even needed to kill Sirus)

Maybe they are trying to incentivize Maven (with awakened gems too), but I dont understand why given a new endgame and 4 bosses to interact with.

It's a head-scratcher for me.

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This is a very good post and exactly my thoughts. Now that being said, GGG will do what they want so if you are able to buy a carry relatively easily then this is just a minor annoyance. There is a sub-set of players who love bossing so I am perfectly OK with GGG throwing them some love. Just because I'm not a fan of bossing myself doesn't mean that I don't recognize the need to mix it up.

Whilst I fully agree that aspirational content is a good thing and it is important to make killing the Bosses worthwhile, I think that this change reduces player agency.

Part of the attraction of POE is the is the variety of options available to players and the wide range of skills to choose from. Previously if you wanted watchstones it was fine to be non optimised as there was no penalty for not killing the boss. Sure, you didn’t get loot but no worries you could still progress your atlas with just the conquerors.

This has now changed.

This is bad for build diversity - something GGG has said on many occasions they want to promote, as it just forces the meta. Previously the punishment for a sub optimal build was slower mapping, or not getting the loot from bosses. Now it actively gates content.

Of course you can “git gud” or buy a carry, but not everyone wants to do this, in fact the stats on maven and UE kills would suggest the overwhelming majority of the player base does not want to. Rather people want to dick about and have fun. I have no issue with not getting maven orbs or even awakened gems as a result of my choices, but forcing me to have a dedicated optimised bosser just to push maps is not cool.

Although it is true that without voidstones you will have access to T16 maps, sustain will become much harder because you can fall back to T1 maps. When all voidstones are socketed, this problem will not occur and you will be able to run T16 forever.

I also don't think that the new map passives on the atlas tree will be adequate to sustain your higher level map pool.