What option I have to obtain watchstone from Maven since I never defeat Maven?

"

Moridin79 wrote:

I don't think I've ever used a sextant on a white or even yellow map.

That's because you can't use sextants on maps - you use them on watchstones/voidstones, which you don't have access to now, before you've beaten the hardest bosses the game throws at you - as I see it; when you're at a point in the game where you don't need to use them anymore. I accept/respect that you don't see this as a huge issue, but I struggle to see how you can view this as a "good change". What does it bring to the game?

"

Moridin79 wrote:

Also, the passive tree will more than cover what you're supposedly "losing"

You don't know this.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Moridin79 wrote:

I don't think I've ever used a sextant on a white or even yellow map.

That's because you can't use sextants on maps - you use them on watchstones/voidstones, which you don't have access to now, before you've beaten the hardest bosses the game throws at you - as I see it; when you're at a point in the game where you don't need to use them anymore. I accept/respect that you don't see this as a huge issue, but I struggle to see how you can view this as a "good change". What does it bring to the game?

"

Moridin79 wrote:

Also, the passive tree will more than cover what you're supposedly "losing"

You don't know this.

Nice patronizing. You know exactly what I meant.

See my previous edit.

You don't know either but I'm more than willing to bet on it. Are you?

"

Moridin79 wrote:

You don't know either but I'm more than willing to bet on it. Are you?

I'll rather discuss based on what we know, not what we assume. 90% of the player base not having access to sextants - at least not several - seems like a weird change to me. You see it as a good change, and that's OK.

Main point, which you haven't really addressed: Sextants are a tool of progression to juice your maps for more rewards. Why gate them behind the posses you usually progress towards?

Don't debate my arguments, just tell me why you think it's a good change.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Moridin79 wrote:

You don't know either but I'm more than willing to bet on it. Are you?

I'll rather discuss based on what we know, not what we assume. 90% of the player base not having access to sextants - at least not several - seems like a weird change to me. You see it as a good change, and that's OK.

Main point, which you haven't really addressed: Sextants are a tool of progression to juice your maps for more rewards. Why gate them behind the posses you usually progress towards?

Don't debate my arguments, just tell me why you think it's a good change.

Your progress doesn't end when you kill a major boss lol. I could argue it doesn't begin until you're powerful enough to farm them. Especially now with the new jewels and op items coming from them.

Again, I believe the atlas tree will more than make up for "juicing" whites and yellows with sextants. People won't even be seeing a sextant drop until way later anyway.

It's apparent that ggg sees sextants now as an even later game juicing system than it's now, which aligns with how I've always played the game.

I believe they've also rebalanced the mods to be even more powerful/interesting. For the late late game juicing.

"

Moridin79 wrote:

Your progress doesn't end when you kill a major boss lol.

Nah, but being able to kill all four of them is pretty "far down the line" for a very HUGE part of the player base.

To be fair here, I didn't use sextants "on" white/yellow maps either, I used them "on" high tier maps to progress my character to be able to beat the pinnacle bosses, which I can't anymore.

Sure, the atlas tree "may" be able to make up for it. It "may". But you still didn't answer my question: Why do you think gating the use of sextants behind the hardest bosses in the game is a good change in itself, disregarding everything else.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Moridin79 wrote:

Your progress doesn't end when you kill a major boss lol.

Nah, but being able to kill all four of them is pretty "far down the line" for a very HUGE part of the player base.

Sure, the atlas tree "may" be able to make up for it. It "may". But you still didn't answer my question: Why do you think gating the use of sextants behind the hardest bosses in the game is a good change in itself, disregarding everything else.

It's a bossing league, so being incentivized further to boss is a good thing. More powerful sextants for lategame juicing is good. Giving players more to strive for is good.

I'm perfectly fine not having some noobs not having access to voidstones. When I first started playing I never made it to yellow maps. Should I have had access to everything in the game at that time? No. Same thing applies here.

The atlas tree and overall simplification is for the masses. Voidstones and sextants are for the late lategamers.

"You don't need more T16s" is a weird argument. No one needs to play.


I agree with Phrazz, I like most of the changes, but find it odd to gate normal T16s behind the ultimate endgame bosses.

Ignoring fairness or who deserves what, it simply logically feels odd that to upgrade the atlas, you must first defeat the endgame.

Shouldn't you be upgrading by running the atlas at T16 until you can beat the endgame?


Ultimately this will just making running a decent bossing build (or one amount your characters) mandatory if you dont want to pay for a carry. Not the end of the world, but just weird.

It's like having to defeat one red map before Kirac will sell you white maps. It doesnt make sense.

"

trixxar wrote:

"You don't need more T16s" is a weird argument. No one needs to play.

Out of context statement

"

trixxar wrote:

I agree with Phrazz, I like most of the changes, but find it odd to gate normal T16s behind the ultimate endgame bosses.

There are normal T16's already on the atlas, what are you on about?

"

trixxar wrote:

Ignoring fairness or who deserves what, it simply logically feels odd that to upgrade the atlas, you must first defeat the endgame.

Shouldn't you be upgrading by running the atlas at T16 until you can beat the endgame?

So you want to run T16's to progress towards....T16's?

"

trixxar wrote:

Ultimately this will just making running a decent bossing build (or one amount your characters) mandatory if you dont want to pay for a carry. Not the end of the world, but just weird.

Strange to run a bossing build during a clear bossing league...

"

Moridin79 wrote:

It's a bossing league, so being incentivized further to boss is a good thing. More powerful sextants for lategame juicing is good. Giving players more to strive for is good.

I'm perfectly fine not having some noobs not having access to voidstones. When I first started playing I never made it to yellow maps. Should I have had access to everything in the game at that time? No. Same thing applies here.

I just think we play TOTALLY different. I farm T16 maps for days (even weeks) before even thinking about the pinnacle bosses. Requiring to beat them all the be able to juice your maps is weird, and in strong contrast to every league for several years, where "noobs had access to the use of sextants" (who's patronizing now, btw?).

I think there's enough incentives to beat them, without gating regular map juicing behind them.

"

Phrazz wrote:

I think there's enough incentives to beat them, without gating regular map juicing behind them.

You're thinking in terms of the old system. It's been changed.