What option I have to obtain watchstone from Maven since I never defeat Maven?

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arknath wrote:

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TheRealKraggy wrote:

It's a shame GGG screwed-over less capable players like myself in 3.17 when they changed map completion from having to kill the lesser bosses in order to get maps to T16 to now requiring the 2 most difficult bosses in the game to be defeated to achieve the same thing .. and I'm not talking about the 2 new bosses both of which look to be a lot easier than Maven with her bloody stupid memory game.

Sure it probably pleased the 1%-ers but for the rest of us not so much.

But you are wrong... You get T16 maps with 0 voidstones. The only thing more voidstones do is pushing other maps up to 16 as well, ending in you getting all maps to 16 at 4 voidstones. Voidstones also make room for sextants. That's it. GGG didn't screw over anyone. Before you had to get watchstones to get T16 at all. Granted they were a bit easier. Now you just don't need them unless you want more variety in T16 pool.

This is absurd.

GGG did in fact, do average players dirty here, FOR NO REASON. What is the point of locking T16 maps behind aspirational Boss fights? You never had to kill Sirus to unlock the Atlas before. Unlocking the Atlas is now an aspirational activity? Lol sure.

Right now you get 4 T16 maps with zero voidstones. Fucking 4! (Including Dungeon which lol). Thats way more than a "lack of variety". I have no clue what the design philosophy here was. Kill Maven or UE so you have a bigger pool? Why gate that? Its a TERRIBLE anti-player change. (Sextants too as a result)

Anyways good on GGG for setting records for player concurrency. I think they will hemorrhage those numbers shortly, but hey, tout those vanity numbers that didnt matter when they were bad, when they show something positive.

Back to Lost Ark & Dying Light for me. Keep it real exiles, and if you are a casual PoE player that feels alienated by the game, you have options out there. Speak with your wallet and your time if you dont like what's happening.

If chris cant kill maven we shouldnt have to.

you could never get your whole atlas to t16 before, so acting like theyve taken something that everyone could achieve and locked it behind uber bosses is dishonest and silly.


you upgrade half ur atlas to t16 maps by beating the new bosses, and the green invitations to them are very easy. thats pretty much the same or more t16 maps than we had on our atlas before if we had full watchstones which required a lot more bossing with the conquerors.


people need to get some perspective and actually make honest, sensible arguments if they want to make points that are worth reading.

Game is better for high end players - all maps T16

Game probably worse for everyone else - Just to fight uber elder you need to kill shaper and elder multiple times, be crushing guardians to get those maps.


I dont mind harder or easier, but to me if you are destroying guardians, shaper, uber elder... what need do you have of more Tier 16 maps.

To anyone saying the game is not harder for beginners now, you are saying that a Tier 14ish Conq of the Atlas is equal or harder than Elder Guardians/shaper/Elder/Uber Elder/Maven combined.

Previously you could full upgrade killing Tier 14 conquerors, now its that combo above.

Thats so far from reality there is no discussion possible.

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trixxar wrote:

Game is better for high end players - all maps T16

Game probably worse for everyone else - Just to fight uber elder you need to kill shaper and elder multiple times, be crushing guardians to get those maps.


I dont mind harder or easier, but to me if you are destroying guardians, shaper, uber elder... what need do you have of more Tier 16 maps.

To anyone saying the game is not harder for beginners now, you are saying that a Tier 14ish Conq of the Atlas is equal or harder than Elder Guardians/shaper/Elder/Uber Elder/Maven combined.

Previously you could full upgrade killing Tier 14 conquerors, now its that combo above.

Thats so far from reality there is no discussion possible.

no, because 2 voidstones gives you an atlas where 50% of your maps are t16, and before this change having 4 watchstones in all 8 regions gave you about 50% of your maps being t16.


so to get your atlas to be roughly the same as before now requires you kill 4 bosses who are all about as hard as the 32 bosses you had to kill for the 32 watchstones previously.

To fully upgrade your Atlas is MUCH harder now than before.

To get to Tier 16s is maybe slightly easier (because really were any builds not killing conqs?)

If you are a new player who wants only to play some Tier 16s then quit, sure its the same or easier.

If you want to upgrade your atlas, its exponentially harder.

Disagree with any of that?

before 3.17 I don't care about never killing maven or uber elder because they don;t affect my atlas they are just uber atziri where you can ignore and forget. But now it sucks because I have to kill these bosses to complete my atlas.

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trixxar wrote:

If you want to upgrade your atlas, its exponentially harder.

Disagree with any of that?

I agree with that. But I also agree that the NEED to upgrade your atlas, is lower now. Before, you HAD to farm those conquerors. You HAD to farm those watch stones. You HAD to play solitaire with them. You HAD to in order to progress. You don't anymore.

I really don't care that the ability to make all maps T16 is being gated behind tough bosses. NO ONE needs their atlas to be all T16 maps. That is - and will always be - a luxury. What I do care about, is that the ability to use sextants is being gated behind all those bosses. Sextants has, IMO, always been a tool for progression. To gate them behind most of your goals? It's weird.

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Phrazz wrote:

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trixxar wrote:

If you want to upgrade your atlas, its exponentially harder.

Disagree with any of that?

I agree with that. But I also agree that the NEED to upgrade your atlas, is lower now. Before, you HAD to farm those conquerors. You HAD to farm those watch stones. You HAD to play solitaire with them. You HAD to in order to progress. You don't anymore.

I really don't care that the ability to make all maps T16 is being gated behind tough bosses. NO ONE needs their atlas to be all T16 maps. That is - and will always be - a luxury. What I do care about, is that the ability to use sextants is being gated behind all those bosses. Sextants has, IMO, always been a tool for progression. To gate them behind most of your goals? It's weird.

I'm not sure I would call it a luxury - in reality, whoever can run t14+ maps will run nothing else because of Maven, be it at 0 watch stones or 4.

The main thing the watchstones change is the variance in maps you drop at the tier you want to run, which doesn't really impact the profitability/power in any way, but is a strong quality-of-life thing because running a high variance of maps is more fun than running the same 4 maps over and over.

So, why gate it behind the pinnacle bosses? The Searing Exarch and World Eater are well made in this aspect as their quest version is quite doable, but Maven and Uber Elder are among the most difficult fights in the game, so putting a major quality of gameplay aspect behind them doesn't seem like a great design.

And then there're sextants, where I fully agree.

It is truly a "weird" decision, and definitely un-checks a box for me. It will be interesting to see what happens with this.