new Armour formula doesnt change a thing - it is still something you leave others to use

"

TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

IF they give Jugg MORE damage node, yes it will be more popular. They should also remove that accuracy stacking bullcrap and give +2 Endurance charges.

It would be more popular, but I can't get behind having damage on it. The way I see it, jugger should get just really good defense out of the box, stuff like phys reduction, max reses, various debuff protection, life regen...
Possibly having two branches, one build around 'while moving' to reinforce the unstoppable tank archetype. Something like 'clear all debuffs after moving for 1s and then every 4s' (the latter an anti-derp measure for cyclone). And the other branch built around standing still, with some channeling stuff.

The way jugger should get damage, I think, is by freeing your passive and gear investment so you can get it elsewhere. Don't like the accuracy thing either, though, doesn't seem to fit the ascendancy well.

"

sckiff wrote:

Once again you can swap your shield to any other and die just like you did in second video or even faster.

Bought a cheap 15c shield with the only useful mod being recover 4% ES on block. Did a quick test - same map.

https://youtu.be/HKlp6k5EIeQ

"

HamsterTrainer wrote:

Bought a cheap 15c shield with the only useful mod being recover 4% ES on block. Did a quick test - same map.

And thas is just proved my point.
Armor works vs small hits you dont care about and dont work against big hits you do care about. The rare didnt manage to hit you/didnt played hit animation.
In second test you had ~ amount of armor "regular melee" have.
They might have slightly more with lionsroar up, but they will still die in a second.

And I will repeat myself, these 4 nodes provide you more armor than perfect non unique armor items will, and they will also provide you with 0! life mods on them: body, helm, boots, gloves and belt(but it can have life mod).

And after the determination buff, the armor guy will have ~1.5k armor from gear, 2k from determination, 50% more from determination and lets say 150% increase from tree, this will result in ~13k armor. and will be comparable to 26k right now.
Tell me do you have MoRE armor right now(with no flask) or not?

PS. will be back in a day ot two. so if you want to ontinue discussion you are welcome in PM.

"

sckiff wrote:

"

HamsterTrainer wrote:

Bought a cheap 15c shield with the only useful mod being recover 4% ES on block. Did a quick test - same map.

And thas is just proved my point.
Armor works vs small hits you dont care about and dont work against big hits you do care about. The rare didnt manage to hit you/didnt played hit animation.
In second test you had ~ amount of armor "regular melee" have.
They might have slightly more with lionsroar up, but they will still die in a second.

And I will repeat myself, these 4 nodes provide you more armor than perfect non unique armor items will, and they will also provide you with 0! life mods on them: body, helm, boots, gloves and belt(but it can have life mod).

And after the determination buff, the armor guy will have ~1.5k armor from gear, 2k from determination, 50% more from determination and lets say 150% increase from tree, this will result in ~13k armor. and will be comparable to 26k right now.
Tell me do you have MoRE armor right now(with no flask) or not?

PS. will be back in a day ot two. so if you want to ontinue discussion you are welcome in PM.

Armour works against most of the stuff people complain about which is random stuff in the map. It doesn't and shouldn't work against strong boss hits - even though without shield I can tank shaper slams right now.

You can roll 1.4k on an astral plate alone (well 1.8k with t1 rolls but we'll assume a normal roll), 700 on an armour helmet and those are with life mods. Boots and gloves will give ~300 each. I'll ignore the elephant in the room that is the 3k armour you can get on the shield an armour guy can access. So that gives him ~2.7k armour. If he also 'only invests in 4 small clusters' and allocate Heart of Iron then he will have 24k armour (without the determination buff) which is similar to me without a shield at 28k. He also didn't have to invest in 2 medium clusters to ensure the stubborn students actually work. He could actually get a lot higher numbers as well with better rolls and adding some hybrid rolls but I think the point has been made.

Armor is crap, no matter how you try to say otherwise.
My Jugger with 77% max res, 7k HP, and around 50k armor two handed is dying like 100x more time, than my 5k hp Gladiator, with average armor, but max block chance.

You can try it as hard as you like, but ain't happening bud.

"

RoyalMarauder wrote:

Armor is crap, no matter how you try to say otherwise.
My Jugger with 77% max res, 7k HP, and around 50k armor two handed is dying like 100x more time, than my 5k hp Gladiator, with average armor, but max block chance.

You can try it as hard as you like, but ain't happening bud.

yet people who play block/dodge/ranged builds wont believe you because THEY are not experiencing it.

Block build with AR on top is a block build, not the way around. you can drop AR from it - there wont be no difference (excluding Aegis build ofc), you drop block from it - you are dead


as long as a Harvest plot with cold snakes in modded map is auto-skip for AR characters it means AR is garbage as a mechanic and does not serve its purpose as a defence

adding few points of +max res (i bet +2, on garbage nodes) IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE A THING. 40 mobs, each releasing a 3000 elemental projectile = 120000 flat damage. going from 30.000 damage taken (75% res) to 24000 (80%) makes no difference! even 85% max res reduced that to 18000, still lethal

if these are spell projectiles (and we all know, they ARE spell projectiles) you simply exit the map as there is nothing you can do




2h Mace Chieftain Tectonic Slam - 'archetypical character' - has pretty much only armour to rely on. and maybe thats the reason you dont see many. because AR is garbage in real scenarios like the one described above: Harvest plots that ranged/avoidance based character simply clears without sweat


good thing about upcoming changes? people still havent grasped just how serious are block/ev/dodge nerfs and that they are going to feel the same issue themselves

"

You can roll 1.4k on an astral plate alone (well 1.8k with t1 rolls but we'll assume a normal roll), 700 on an armour helmet and those are with life mods. Boots and gloves will give ~300 each. I'll ignore the elephant in the room that is the 3k armour you can get on the shield an armour guy can access. So that gives him ~2.7k armour. If he also 'only invests in 4 small clusters' and allocate Heart of Iron then he will have 24k armour (without the determination buff) which is similar to me without a shield at 28k. He also didn't have to invest in 2 medium clusters to ensure the stubborn students actually work. He could actually get a lot higher numbers as well with better rolls and adding some hybrid rolls but I think the point has been made.

Heart of Iron gives you ONLY flat armour. 6000HP -> 600 BASE AR
stacking life gives you.. just life

Stubborn Student gives you:
- Armour (6000 free mana -> 600 BASE AR)
- 20 %Armour on top of that
- 15% mana (that translates to +EHP, +spell damage, +mana regen, +ARMOUR again, +AOE on Hierophant)
stacking mana gives you f.. everything.

there is a slight difference here, dont you see?

it is so bad that Heart of Iron should give 25% HP as AR to be competitive

New armour formular would not be super bad if end game and boss design did not consist of 90% spells which usually are elemental based.

See Sirus/Maven and 100% delirium content.


We are not any further in the armour discussion. We get people pop up claiming its good and once the build is examined its some mana tank / aegis aurora / transcendence basically something armour is used as a side effect to gain much better effects than from armour itself or basically armour is gained as a side effect with close to zero gear slot investment similar what armour used to be in the past. And this truly is the sad state of armour.

The constraints on shield and armour slot as a major source of armour (for those who want to use armour as intended) is another problem. Prefixes are dominated by simply better options than flat armour / % armour and hybrid armour prefixes.

At very least what GGG could have done is increase armour values from boots/helms/gloves and add something for Staves so they dont feel betryed because they cant use a shield nor can use life/ES gain on block via (ab)using Glancing Blows Keystone for it.

Armour Is not helped killed Ubers, Sirius, Expedition(1shots and boses Trilion HP), and not help clear Uber Blight.

And this buff armor - is very low to realy change Rip situation in the map and Delirium.

This buff is very low. I think PoE need buff ALL DPS x2.5more, And mb Life to create 7.5-8k HP DPS builds and try dont die Delirium x5, Uber Blight, Delve.

This new League - still dont comfortable play in start, becose auras see like nerfed DPS to solo players. All dps NO META builds - in this game need VERY UP buff, Now whe have situation 2-3 meta build and all players - jast leave this game becose this Sucks, 2-3 meta builds dont do Happy players.
Whe need UP all not meta - to use free all builds(skills) Good Dps, close all contents any builds, and not Hight price Ex items. This game 2-3 Meta build is not confortable and not see good playeble. Now PoE jast 3/10. In Ritual - 8/10.


This buff Armour jast soap in the eyes. And not realy helped comfortable play this game.

"

sidtherat wrote:

2h Mace Chieftain Tectonic Slam - 'archetypical character' - has pretty much only armour to rely on.

??? did they remove EC, regen and phys taken as fire synergy?