Raise Spectre Gem did NOT deserve your shortsightedness

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DarkJen wrote:

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GKPlight wrote:

Level 72 specter instead of 76 mean that they will have 20% less damage and 20% less health than in 3.12 .

If your build had 10 millions DPS, it will have 8 millions instead.

So it is far to kill the specter build.

A baseline level 20 gem is a level 72 Spectre

A level 72 zone is a white tier map.

So its white tier viable only.
And spectres being less lvl than instance took much more dmg due to negative treshold, as it seems from practisce, so the get easilly eliminated in higher than their lvl, instances.

Exactly! ... Why nobody listening to criticisms about this? I am worried about the same thing and this is ridiculous. Worst job GGG done. RIP game .

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Vaildez wrote:

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Toshis8 wrote:

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Vaildez wrote:

If they don't reconsider the gem nerf I may take a break from this league and maybe longer. I have been playing spectres since Betrayal and I just enjoy the playstyle. The gem nerf is just too much and pretty much makes it unplayable.

Well, look at the bright side, finally you can try playing a different build for first time in your life, instead of playing spectres every single league.

Edit:

Tho you might be shocked to see that many builds out there arent as powerful as summoners.

I have played other build and they were 10x more powerful than any summoner build i played... I just prefer the playstyle of minions. If they are going to eliminate the playstyle I like I just won't play this game anymore or give them my money.

Exactly gonna do the same. They erased us on purposed :) Rip game.

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zepother wrote:

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DarkJen wrote:

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GKPlight wrote:

Level 72 specter instead of 76 mean that they will have 20% less damage and 20% less health than in 3.12 .

If your build had 10 millions DPS, it will have 8 millions instead.

So it is far to kill the specter build.

A baseline level 20 gem is a level 72 Spectre

A level 72 zone is a white tier map.

So its white tier viable only.
And spectres being less lvl than instance took much more dmg due to negative treshold, as it seems from practice, so they get easilly eliminated in higher than their lvl, instances.

Exactly! ... Why nobody listening to criticisms about this? I am worried about the same thing and this is ridiculous. Worst job GGG done. RIP game .

Dunno, rly.
Some even "think" this is not true..

But its very easy to see while even lvling.

Guys, wait for the patch notes. If GGG says they expect spectres to remain "top played", let's see the full list of changes.

Anyway, as alternative, we have some options that still seem viable:
> Spiders
> DPS AG
> Dancing Duo
> Zombies
+ 4L Support Spectres (RS + BM + MinionLife/ElementalArmy + MeatShield)

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6_din_49 wrote:

Guys, wait for the patch notes. If GGG says they expect spectres to remain "top played", let's see the full list of changes.

Anyway, as alternative, we have some options that still seem viable:
> Spiders
> DPS AG
> Dancing Duo
> Zombies
+ 4L Support Spectres (RS + BM + MinionLife/ElementalArmy + MeatShield)

They will still be heavily played because there is a community of summoner players like me that prefer this playstyle. I will choose to either play a summoner regardless or just skip this league and future leagues.

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Vaildez wrote:

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6_din_49 wrote:

Guys, wait for the patch notes. If GGG says they expect spectres to remain "top played", let's see the full list of changes.

Anyway, as alternative, we have some options that still seem viable:
> Spiders
> DPS AG
> Dancing Duo
> Zombies
+ 4L Support Spectres (RS + BM + MinionLife/ElementalArmy + MeatShield)

They will still be heavily played because there is a community of summoner players like me that prefer this playstyle. I will choose to either play a summoner regardless or just skip this league and future leagues.

Totally agree.
I like summoner playstyle, other builds just bore me or don't satisfy me like strong minions that fight for me.
I don't wanna play other builds if summoner is dead, then I will play to other games as I did when this game is no more attractive for me

The issue as usual with GGG is they over do it. Large nerfs are bad for business.

Class nerfs can be tweaked over multiple leagues slowly VS one large screw you nerf that only alienates players.

Typical GGG...

NS

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Nightstone13 wrote:

The issue as usual with GGG is they over do it. Large nerfs are bad for business.

Class nerfs can be tweaked over multiple leagues slowly VS one large screw you nerf that only alienates players.

Typical GGG...

NS

The worst part is they have been nerfing Necro and Spectre for the last 4-5 leagues because .001% of the population who can afford to abuse mechanics like aura stacking.

I don't post too often, but I have to agree with people posting on multiple threads here and on Reddit on the level nerf to RS. A few key points:

- "Raise Zombies and SRS didn't get nerfed." - Very true, but zombies have been around for many years now and longstanding supporters of PoE will have playing a zombie build at some stage. RS provides an avenue of diversity with new and interesting builds with new monsters added each league. I'd prefer not to play another zombie build or another SRS build. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Should any players decide to continue with their RS build, this nerf would actually *decrease* the level of diversity because now everybody will look to utilise the monster for RS with the best chance of surviving the content - I believe this flies in the face of the ambition of the RS gem (may as well just make it Raise Slave Driver, for example).

- "Spectres are overpowered" - Very true: they can be. But the significant majority of the player base does not have access to the end-game gear that lets spectres melt content - these players will be significantly disheartened, which is a real shame because I've also seen many players more hyped for this league than (literally) any other. To solve for overpowered spectres, nerf the monsters themselves. I applaud the nerf to Syndicate Operatives. They were fun whilst they lasted, but they did deserve the nerf hammer. Spectres (in general) did not.

- "I like the spectre playstyle" - Very true. I am of the same mind - Path of Exile for me is an escape after work (a much needed one considering the pandemic) where I can sit back and watch my minions kill stuff on screen and get my loot. Unless the nerf is reconsidered zombies are one of the only alternative solutions (and see my first point on zombies...).

- "Spectres are very difficult to summon." Very true. With power creep, damage can get very spiky and even in Heist my lvl 25+ spectres would die occasionally. It's a real break from the pace of the game to have to exit the map, remove Spell Echo (probably), weapon swap to desecrate and re-summon spectres. If the result of the nerf is that spectres will now die more often, a change to the way spectres can be summoned (perhaps an auto-re-summon in the same way as golems?) would help swallow the bitter nerf pill. With the nerf, spectres are going to die much more often and I personally don't want to spend more time in my hideout summoning spectres than in a map killing monsters - again, I believe this flies in the face of the ambition to make a game that players come back to night after night.

- "They nerfed other aspects of Necromancer" - Very true. I do think that the nerf to cluster jewels combined with the nerfs to ascendancy passives would have been a viable test to gauge the relative effectiveness of spectre builds. If too many changes happen at the same time, the mark can be missed. I believe GGG works in an agile way, which would denote many small changes over an extended period of time to achieve the desired outcome. I think everything combined will have missed the mark by a long-shot, and I don't think many people will be playing raise spectre as a result so any insight on potential future changes for future leagues will be based off a relatively limited dataset.

I'm sure there are other key points with this, but these are just my thoughts. Please reconsider this change. Without meaning to cause offense, the design team are often not correct on all intricate aspects of the game - we can see this from significant changes to league design (e.g. Heist) and player builds (e.g. aura stackers) that are in need of changing after release and after player feedback.

Apologies for the wall of text. TL;DR - reducing the gem level of RS was a lazy fix for a very small problem. There were other, more effective, ways to achieve the desired outcome and they've been suggested.

The worst part is they didn't even fix Aura Stacking... They just made it more expensive. Well the people who were doing it were the uber rich anyhow... So great balancing!