Seriously... This game is an escape for me. I am in my late 30's and a lot of builds completely murder my hands and wrists with carpal tunnel. I just wish they would be more considerate about stuff like this.
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This set of changes are extremely demotivating. I was so excited to explore the new league, but I cannot play other builds due to RSI.
if RSI is real, and not some rhetoric argument, then get treated and stop doing ANY issue-worsening activities that are not essential. gaming IS NOT essential.
if you are 30 and you have this problem, at 60 you will be reliant on painkillers to function. find a safe pastime
Agreed, and just wanted to point out..RSI / disabilities is not an excuse to have an overpowered build in the game. The playstyle can exist, that isn't an issue.
There are other builds with passive playstyles as well. They just aren't as strong and/or need better gear.
But a build with a passive playstyle that can ignore enemy mechanics and trivialise the majority of the game on no budget is ridiculous, agree with everything else you said.
Last edited by BrettLee#6388 on Jan 12, 2021, 5:12:40 AM
As someone who has been playing minions builds since Betrayal I 100% agree with this post.
And your statement shows EXACTLY why they needed to be nerfed...
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Pizzarugi wrote:
Some players, like myself, enjoy one single playstyle. Hell the only reason I got into PoE and still play it today is because it's the only ARPG that is remotely similar to Diablo 2, specifically when it comes to Necromancer. Diablo 3 fucked that up royally, Torchlight lost their opportunity after the first game, Wolcen is downright awful, and Grim Dawn failed to deliver (which is sad, considering the devs made D2).
PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.
Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build!
MFers found strength in their Afflictions. They became reliant on them. I am not so foolish.
I spoke with the design team about this and asked if they'd consider reviewing the nerf. They explained that even after the nerf, spectres have more life than basically every other minion type. They also have higher base resistances in general. As an example, a level 20 Solar Guard spectre has almost double the life of a level 20 Golem or Zombie. We suspect that these will still be one of the top-played builds in 3.13.
This is [redacted] unbelievable. It's not just about life, you know? When spectres die in the middle of combat it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to resummon them WITHOUT going to another area. DID YOUR DESIGN TEAM PLAY THIS GEM AT LEAST ONCE IN THEIR LIFE?
- Golems and Zombies can easily be resummoned while spectres can't.
- The maximum and reasonable count of spectres any spectre-focused build can get is 4-5. Zombies are usually 10+. Golems can get up to 6 (+/-). So if your design team can't handle this: There are usually less spectres walking around than any other minion type (apart from HoA)
- Base resistance is not a valid argument, as the Spectre is raised from the monster which inherently has some type of resistance. That's one of the details spectres differ from other minions, but how can your design team know this if they didn't actually play with the gem?
Last edited by Funkjoker#1026 on Jan 12, 2021, 4:41:05 AM
I spoke with the design team about this and asked if they'd consider reviewing the nerf. They explained that even after the nerf, spectres have more life than basically every other minion type. They also have higher base resistances in general. As an example, a level 20 Solar Guard spectre has almost double the life of a level 20 Golem or Zombie. We suspect that these will still be one of the top-played builds in 3.13.
This is [redacted] unbelievable. It's not just about life, you know? When spectres die in the middle of combat it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to resummon them WITHOUT going to another area. DID YOUR DESIGN TEAM PLAY THIS GEM AT LEAST ONCE IN THEIR LIFE?
- Golems and Zombies can easily be resummoned while spectres can't.
- The maximum and reasonable count of spectres any spectre-focused build can get is 4-5. Zombies are usually 10+. Golems can get up to 6 (+/-). So if your design team can't handle this: There are usually less spectres walking around than any other minion type (apart from HoA)
- Base resistance is not a valid argument, as the Spectre is raised from the monster which inherently has some type of resistance. That's one of the details spectres differ from other minions, but how can your design team know this if they didn't actually play with the gem?
They'd better have something good prepared for today's announcement, to justify the "top-played" part...
Seriously... This game is an escape for me. I am in my late 30's and a lot of builds completely murder my hands and wrists with carpal tunnel. I just wish they would be more considerate about stuff like this.
"
This set of changes are extremely demotivating. I was so excited to explore the new league, but I cannot play other builds due to RSI.
if RSI is real, and not some rhetoric argument, then get treated and stop doing ANY issue-worsening activities that are not essential. gaming IS NOT essential.
if you are 30 and you have this problem, at 60 you will be reliant on painkillers to function. find a safe pastime
to others:
that and Minion Life Support is still in game, isnt it?
claiming 'minions ded', 'spectres ded' etc is pretty comical at this point. there is a reason spectres were popular and are going to be popular - they offered absurdly safe, cheap and strong build that scaled almost entirely of thin air (yet could be boosted by gear). some spectres were absurd. ive used.. flame carpets. yes, flame carpets, in 2020, and had ABSOLUTELY no problems in endgame, spectres NEVER died on me, EVER.
there are plenty of defensive stats for minions on jewels (regular, abyss and cluster) that are ignored because why would anyone use them?
it is a huge nerf. but it is a nerf from braindead, cheap, effective to 'now i have to actually plan my build, like other players'
the worst part is - corpse-based necromancers are untouched so we are back into necro DD/VD meta. but with this build you at least have a chance of dying from time to time
Well said
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
that and Minion Life Support is still in game, isnt it?
claiming 'minions ded', 'spectres ded' etc is pretty comical at this point. there is a reason spectres were popular and are going to be popular - they offered absurdly safe, cheap and strong build that scaled almost entirely of thin air (yet could be boosted by gear). some spectres were absurd. ive used.. flame carpets. yes, flame carpets, in 2020, and had ABSOLUTELY no problems in endgame, spectres NEVER died on me, EVER.
there are plenty of defensive stats for minions on jewels (regular, abyss and cluster) that are ignored because why would anyone use them?
it is a huge nerf. but it is a nerf from braindead, cheap, effective to 'now i have to actually plan my build, like other players'
the worst part is - corpse-based necromancers are untouched so we are back into necro DD/VD meta. but with this build you at least have a chance of dying from time to time
- Spectres which were previously just nice to play around with (mid-tier spectres) are now completely nonviable because of the level loss.
- Spectres dying in combat is far more significant than with any other minion type
- Defensive nodes were never disregarded. Sacrifice and Indomitable Army were always taken in my builds and others are inclined to take them too if they feel their spectres are too squishy
- There is nothing braindead about spectres. One has to build his defences in parallel to the minion's setup because you can die a lot as a summoner; 6k HP and no phys migitation is just begging to die. I don't play life summoners, however I see much whining in other threads about their character's squishiness. So now one has to take even more minion defensive nodes when you need these points yourself for defense.
- Summoners are already socket-starved as hell and now to use additional gems for support minions doesn't help the situation at all
Last edited by Funkjoker#1026 on Jan 12, 2021, 5:30:49 AM
GGG's work is really bad this time and i couldnt believe when i say this :)
You are exactly right and i don't even know what they are trying to do.
For example some spectre builds like syndicate operatives etc. were already not that good and were problematic in some ways.
They many times got oneshot deaths , re-positioning spectres is bad and many things. They think they did a good thing i guess but it is terribly wrong and we are off for at least 1 league.
Level 72 specter instead of 76 mean that they will have 20% less damage and 20% less health than in 3.12 .
If your build had 10 millions DPS, it will have 8 millions instead.
So it is far to kill the specter build.
A baseline level 20 gem is a level 72 Spectre
A level 72 zone is a white tier map.
So its white tier viable only.
And spectres being less lvl than instance took much more dmg due to negative treshold, as it seems from practice, so they get easilly eliminated in higher than their lvl, instances.
Last edited by DarkJen#6961 on Jan 12, 2021, 10:35:47 AM
