The Plague that is GGG's "Trade" system. & the Predatory dance feeding its lowkey P2W mechanism.

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Nidal wrote:

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allionus wrote:

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Nidal wrote:

One more time then. the hassle of trading that you describe and the difficulty of knowing the value of alot of items keep them off the market

alot of us currently have the lootfilter ping us when something good drops, we dont really know how much its worth but put it in the stash for later (never)
All my stashes are full at the end of the league, probably yours too

if its easy and quick, more items gets listed
if you can put your item up for auction with no b/o, it all hits the market

you increase supply, value goes down (and saturates demand). everything but the most rare items become worthless

other games gets around this with limits. they make items bind on pickup or equip. alternatively reducing droprates by alot
no game has pulled off free trade with an AH, there no reason to think PoE would be the first

PoE has free trade and its fantastic. you can buy, use and resell any item you find and even make profit when demand increases, almost everything you find has some value

its not good enough to say you dont believe it or lets try
all other game acknowledge the issue by limiting trade. the issue makes perfect sense. and the only similar game that tried it had exactly the expected problems and is a very good example (why they dont like hearing it)


All these people wanting an AH just wants it. they have no idea how and dont care, just GGG fix it

there is no conspiracy. they have created one of the best economies in any game. good for them if they sell some stash tabs and make money :)

The problem with lootfilters, if you have experienced it, is how slow it is to adapt, sometimes items values suddenly rise or fall with no respective update to the filter. Many items are missed out (there are videos where lootfilter hides Savior lol).

I certainly don't suggest allowing no buyout price when listing items. If they list no price, then it should be purchasable for absolutely nothing. So basically it should be turned into a free item. This will give a good shake to the habitual pricefixers/weird showoffs.


This economy looks good only to people who love GGG to the point where they don't want to acknowledge an unwanted flaw. There is no "conspiracy". There is fact. You should expect them to know all the different places their money is coming from, and what is making people buy what. They know how a stash works. They know how the trade system works -They are the architects of every single aspect of it.

It has been kept precisely this way because of the extra $$ it helps them squeeze out of people who otherwise aren't interested in paying for cosmetics.

Sure, AH aren't perfect. The point is not to invalidate AHs because they're not the perfect solution. The point is that they are a MUCH MUCH BETTER option than what exists now. The economy is already poisoned by the Fixers, Flippers, Flexers, Snipers, RMTers( I DO NOT SUPPORT RMT IN ANY WAY, I DO NOT, NO, NON, NEIN! GGG, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE AFOREMENTIONED, T&C VIOLATING ACT! NOTICE NOTICE!!).

None of what you are saying here adresses the issue of the inevitable increase of supply and items becoming more or less useless, there is so much stuff in peoples stashes right now that anything not super rare would immediately become dirt cheap. just me as a nice item example got 2 tabulas in the stash i cant be bothered to sell (theyre just a good example, since they not super rare but rare enough that i dont see them dropping without the div card more than maybe once in a league) there would be 100s of new tabulas on the market
either the economy gets ruined, or they reduce droprates to the point where youre unlikely to even ever get a tabula not to mention anything more valuable. or they need to put BoE limiters on items. i much prefer the system that we have right now

and funny enough, i havnet had the issues you mention. expensive items are pretty often immediately responded too, new listings on cheaper items are also usually quick easy buys. just realize there is scammers. double check listings, check your trade window. be cautious youre dealing with people. its a free market and we have to take some responsebility ourselves

PoE got a very fair free to play model. definetly possible to enjoy without ever spending a cent. trying to get people to buy at least a stash tab is fair enough and theyre not pushing very hard

I don't understand your issue with items becoming "useless". Items keep going in and out of what's hot what's not all the time. Every other update hits economy prices. When the game started, trash t3 rares had value. Now they don't. At some point skyforths had value, now they don't, etc., etc. Half decent items become legacy, and suddenly spike in price. The "stable market" you're talking about does not exist. It never has, never will - unfortunate or not.

The "economy" isn't some mystical ghost. It is a direct outcome of player behaviors. And aren't you a capitalist? What happened to "free market economy"? When the system changes, and those who do not adapt, lose out to those who do. If you keep your "precious item" at a stubborn overpriced amount. You are asking to have your item remain unbought. There are good items on trade since Meta began, and are STILL THERE. because of how idiotically they are priced.

Price changes
Item demand changes
Number of items changes

Everything changes, because the players, and the game changes. The "stability" you talk about, does not exist.

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CryformeSky wrote:

......so if you have been around since pretty much the beginning, you should know what the devs want poe to be......Granted it HAS changed since way back when, but in my opinion, the trade and economy of new leagues is why i come back time and time again. There is no ah, there is no "trade system" implemented, it is just exiles, playing the game. It actually reminds me of trading, before all the big name games, made people lazy as hell with "easy" trades. I have been playing since around the beginnings, and i am by no means an expert, or have the time to play like some people do, because real life happens to me on a daily basis. But i keep coming back to this game time and time again, and i really hope they don't take stupid ass shit like this seriously. Don't take fun out of a game, because people are too god damn lazy, to actually put in some effort to make a god damn sale.

Well I understand your romantic sentiment, but, from my experience of trading extensively since pre-hideout days, the days of the ancient trade chat life, it's less "just exiles playing the game" and more "Exiles having to go through names of items just to get the hover info on the chat channel then asking for the price/offer", to "Exiles just spamming 10 people for the same item because half of the first are afk, and half are Price fixing, then teleporting into the hideout of the one who responds, then making the trade, then loading back into your own hideout. and THEN having to apologize to the other random dude who actually comes back 5 minutes later to sell you his item, 5 exact minutes after you just bought the item from someone who responded sooner.

Instead of going to the marketplace/AH/Alternative, finding the item you want, clicking "buy", getting the item, and the currency being automatically deducted from your account, and sent to the seller (regardless of whether they were a habitual pricefixer, or some guy who works 12 hours a day and needed some sleep, and also happens to be in one of the less popular timezones).

I don't understand how you don't lose the "immersive" feel of the game and its game design, from having to turn your chat purple with all the spamming, and the hideout teleporting with the sole purpose of finishing a trade. I personally have to selectively delude myself in order to enjoy the birds chirping and the water flowing in my Lush hideout, because of all the inefficiency and hoop jumping that the quadriplegic trade system's brought into my PoELife.

Yes there is already items that are dirt cheap, theyre just not very useful to current builds. but there is a huge middle ground. items that are 10c to 1exalt or even more would become worthless too by a flooded market. super rare items would pretty much be unaffected but harder to buy for casuals because whats actually dropping for you wont be sellable anymore

i am not talking about stability. value fluctuates with supply and demand because there is a working economy. An AH causes the supply to be much bigger than the demand unless droprates are adjusted

the items you consider overpriced and unsold are part of this economy. its hard to gauge the value of an item and people worry about selling things too cheap
so they keep it in the stash for later when maybe they get a better understanding, or they put it up for a price noone will pay. its effectively off the market either way wich is exactly how the economy functions with current droprates and without having to restrict trade with things like BoE
and it also rewards players for becoming more knowledgeable. its ok for a game to have layers of complexity

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satanttin wrote:

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allionus wrote:

The more that image appears in quotes, the more powerful it gets!!! MUAWHAHAHWAHAUWUHAHAH!!!!

[Removed by Support]

Lmao. I've seen people get muted or banned for using that errr "term" ingame. I wonder if quoting your words/meme/gif again will make the odds for it happening here any higher. In case you do get slammed I'd just like to say one thing if you don't mind..

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Nidal wrote:

Yes there is already items that are dirt cheap, theyre just not very useful to current builds. but there is a huge middle ground. items that are 10c to 1exalt or even more would become worthless too by a flooded market. super rare items would pretty much be unaffected but harder to buy for casuals because whats actually dropping for you wont be sellable anymore

i am not talking about stability. value fluctuates with supply and demand because there is a working economy. An AH causes the supply to be much bigger than the demand unless droprates are adjusted

the items you consider overpriced and unsold are part of this economy. its hard to gauge the value of an item and people worry about selling things too cheap
so they keep it in the stash for later when maybe they get a better understanding, or they put it up for a price noone will pay. its effectively off the market either way wich is exactly how the economy functions with current droprates and without having to restrict trade with things like BoE
and it also rewards players for becoming more knowledgeable. its ok for a game to have layers of complexity

I understand what you're saying, but, how would the items you mentioned become worthless? People who want to sell their items are ALREADY selling all those they'd want to sell. There's no "great flood" that's gonna happen brah. Items won't magically appear in people's inventory to sell. It's just the Presently Mediocre items sometimes get bought for unreasonable prices.
And that only happens because the good items aren't available that time because the seller is asleep or living their real life for a little while (and losing out on sales). So instead of people having trouble selling their cheap items that drop, they'll be able to sell them without being forced to remain online, and competing against other players, this will make people "Flood" the market LESS, because they will learn that half-assed items can't just be tossed for sale relying on better items being offline during their "on time". So to correct the perception, I'm saying there are MORE SHIT items on sale now than there will be later. And people will become smarter about what's good.

And does getting rid of price fixers and snipers mean nothing at all? Players who don't become knowledgeable in this game, are already suffering (from vendoring valuable stuff, to being swindled by some clever sniper who spots their items and pretends like it's total crap, buys it for pennies on the dollar, and then sells it for its actual value). But a player's personal pursuit of the game's information is completely their own choice. But the way how the system is manipulated by many, is what needs correcting, and what can be easily corrected. The only roadblock, is GGG having gotten used to loving that predation money.


There's other details i can put out, but i have such a huge backlog of other responses i have to get to, just from being away at my friend's place for a night lol srry I hope this is enough for now.

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allionus wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

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allionus wrote:

The more that image appears in quotes, the more powerful it gets!!! MUAWHAHAHWAHAUWUHAHAH!!!!

[Removed by Support]

Lmao. I've seen people get muted or banned for using that errr "term" ingame. I wonder if quoting your words/meme/gif again will make the odds for it happening here any higher. In case you do get slammed I'd just like to say one thing if you don't mind..

See, My meme game was "on fleek", which is how the cool hip kids these days say it.

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allionus wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

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allionus wrote:

The more that image appears in quotes, the more powerful it gets!!! MUAWHAHAHWAHAUWUHAHAH!!!!

[Removed by Support]

Lmao. I've seen people get muted or banned for using that errr "term" ingame. I wonder if quoting your words/meme/gif again will make the odds for it happening here any higher. In case you do get slammed I'd just like to say one thing if you don't mind..

dunno why mine was deleted though but yeah ggg supporters are soso... oh well. u seen it so now u know how to meme i hope lol

This for fort all me pepals. I in I, Jah rastafarai!!! Me no wans to talk dirt to talk dirt, mon!!! Me spens 4000+ owas in dis game. Me wans it to do good in jah name!! But to do $$good in turn fa Gameplay degeneracionnn no be good in tha lon run PoE Naccionnn monn!!! Jah out for now!!


Jah will reply to other..replies afta dis littal brekkkk!!!

No theyre not. Its hard to value items and sometimes we just cant be bothered with the hassle. Again my example with my tabulas, got 2 or 3 in the stash (along with everything else ive deemed valuable enough to pick up and keep) but just the tabulas to make an example. So i got at least 2, if its easy and simple im putting them up all the way until theyre 1alch. Its enough that there are 50 people with 2 tabulas and thats another 100 tabulas up on the market. But fact is there is probably 1000s of tabulas laying about in peoples stashes. Same with every other thing common enough that we find a few every league..pretty much anything but the rarest of items. While some people would like am AH despite whatever limitations would have to be put in place there is also people like me who appreciates the current system as the lesser evil and enjoys that in PoE trade is unrestricted. You can buy, use and resell the same items sometimes even for profit. And new players come both as players like you and like me

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satanttin wrote:

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allionus wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Lmao. I've seen people get muted or banned for using that errr "term" ingame. I wonder if quoting your words/meme/gif again will make the odds for it happening here any higher. In case you do get slammed I'd just like to say one thing if you don't mind..

dunno why mine was deleted though but yeah ggg supporters are soso... oh well. u seen it so now u know how to meme i hope lol

Definitely not! My meme was 3 danks higher than your meme. and ggg is with me on that W!!! Thanks <3!!