The Plague that is GGG's "Trade" system. & the Predatory dance feeding its lowkey P2W mechanism.

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Phrazz wrote:

Good thing you're wrong here. They DO want you to trade. But trade is the most powerful thing there is. Why should it be effortless? Why shouldn't it require something from you? Why should the GAME trade for you?

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MECHanokl wrote:

It's funny to me how when everytime an automated solution to trade is brough up (like say an AH), there will always be people who say how "terrible" and "awful" it is going to be for the game... Except for the fact that a lot of people already, as we speak, use automated trade tools by running bots on alt accounts that sell their junk and flip currecny (basically make money out of thin air through exchange fluctuations) all day while the player is actually playing the game.

So it's not that people don't want to have an automated trade system, they just don't want YOU the average player to have it as well, since it will make it harder for them to gain in-game wealth and do rmt (for those who do). So of course everytime an AH or something is brought up, there will always be people actively fighting the very idea of it and bringing up some nonsense examples like D3 on launch or making vague baseless statements about it "crashing the economy" (yeah, crushing their economy that they profit from). Why would they want their convenience tools to be shared by the masses?

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Nidal wrote:

I dont use anything like that

There are actually theoretical issues of an AH explained clearly in this thread and there is a practical example of those issues in the past

That this is such a hard concept to understand is mind blowing. There is no conspiracy, its not ggg being evil

Its the same reason it has NEVER been done successfully and PoE wouldnt be that game that cracked the code but just another failed game economy

Go back, read whats been said previously and try to understand and when your mind starts going "theyre flippers,ggg wants to make mtx money, its trumps fault, oh and earth is flat" because you really really want an AH. Take a break and try again later

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MECHanokl wrote:

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Nidal wrote:

I dont use anything like that

There are actually theoretical issues of an AH explained clearly in this thread and there is a practical example of those issues in the past

That this is such a hard concept to understand is mind blowing. There is no conspiracy, its not ggg being evil

Its the same reason it has NEVER been done successfully and PoE wouldnt be that game that cracked the code but just another failed game economy

Go back, read whats been said previously and try to understand and when your mind starts going "theyre flippers,ggg wants to make mtx money, its trumps fault, oh and earth is flat" because you really really want an AH. Take a break and try again later

There is no point in saying whether you do or you don't use something, since no one in his right mind would admit practicing a bannable offence on the official forum (not saying that you do).

I know plenty of examples of MMOs (especially old super grindy ones) that used automated trading either in form of player shops or AH successfuly, and people had 0 issues with it and no "economy crashes" happened, it just allowed people to play the game more and have more stuff to play it with, helping the average player. Moreover, other people also pointed out games that had successful automated trading, so this is at best an anecdotal evidence vs anecdotal evidence.

Right now, automated trade is a heavily beneficial tool that is lacking in PoE, and those with knowledge filled this void by using (admittedly against the rules) a solution in a form of a trading bot. You can't possible deny their existance, they are rampant. So plenty of people already have automated trading and profit from it greatly, but god forbid regular Joe to have some sort of convenience (which would also slow down rampant RMT economy that exists around PoE that the devs combat constantly).

Even diablo 3 is a counter example, because when they removed AH (a tool to make gearing more convenient), they replaced it with... Very high drop rates and ease of gearing in general through regular gameplay, something that AH existed to do instead. So they didn't take away player's ability to gear up, they just swapped trading with SSF-friendly drops. I wouldn't mind something like this in PoE, but this is not the case, is it? The case is that regular players have no convenience features and either give up on gearing or no-life the game, while others use third part software to amass curenncy while also playing the game instead of playing a crappy trading simulator all day.

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mccready wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Good thing you're wrong here. They DO want you to trade. But trade is the most powerful thing there is. Why should it be effortless? Why shouldn't it require something from you? Why should the GAME trade for you?

Because it requires an activity that is 99% outside of the game loop.

It's like saying "If you want to get item x, fold 100 envelopes first". It just makes no sense whatsoever. If you want trading to be hard, hide the entrance to the auction house behind a tough boss.

The way it's written right now, the way you read it of their paper, actively encourages every prohibitive and negative trading interaction, such as price fixing and posting offers without the intend of trade fulfillment.

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Miská wrote:

You can't compare PoE to an MMO like WoW, in most MMO items on the high end have other ways of limiting them (BOA,BOP etc) and these games are not focused on loot and character development like an ARPG is. Your comparing apples with donkeys.

Also your D3 comment is another complete fail. The AH and the current game have nothing in common. What the AH did in D3 was that farming was pointless. The only thing you could do in D3 was farm gold. And even that was slow. There was no gearing up at all because all GG gear was to expensive and to rare. You want PoE to turn into that?

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MECHanokl wrote:

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Miská wrote:

You can't compare PoE to an MMO like WoW, in most MMO items on the high end have other ways of limiting them (BOA,BOP etc) and these games are not focused on loot and character development like an ARPG is. Your comparing apples with donkeys.

Also your D3 comment is another complete fail. The AH and the current game have nothing in common. What the AH did in D3 was that farming was pointless. The only thing you could do in D3 was farm gold. And even that was slow. There was no gearing up at all because all GG gear was to expensive and to rare. You want PoE to turn into that?

Yep, just as I predicted, a bunch of weak defences to avoid implementation of a basic convenience feature that is of incredibly high demand (hence why there are so many trade bots) and which proved to work perfectly in other, grindier and more gear reliant games.

I can and I will compare PoE to MMOs, because both rely on gear to progress and do endgame. Every single MMO I have ever played required gear, just like PoE, and usually had even more ridiculous grind and RNG requirements, and some also had gear based PvP. They were ABSOLUTELY focused around character and gear progression and loot and yet it didn't stop basic trade automation to work and not break anything.

The only thing you could farm for in D3 was gold? Well excuse me, but it sounds EXACTLY like my PoE experience, where I essentially grind for currency to buy what I want, kind of like gold, and this is what wast majority of players f*cking do all the time, this is why basic currency flippers are so rich. In the entirety of my PoE gameplay I dropped exactly 2 (!!!) unique items that were more expensive than a couple of chaos orbs on the market. Even f*cking shaper runs were a net loss, because I would gain more by selling sets for currency rather than expecting a good drop. 99.9% of all my gear was bought and farmed for in terms of currency (aka gold)... And I agree, this IS a failure of a system, the difference is that you are, for some weird reason, trying to pretend that PoE is not like that as well. PoE is like that already.