IMPORTANT: Everyone playing on Windows 7 or 8.1 immediately stop and upgrade to Windows 10.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

If it was true that Windows 10 "sucks" and Window 7 "blows" (Windows 8 doesn't rate at all) then no one would be gaming much. Obviously, this isn't true. My personal PoE performance proves that Windows 10 runs circles around Windows 7 PoE performance.

Windows 10 runs performance circles around everything compared to Windows 7. Even Windows 8 was a much faster OS for gaming, but like 7 is to Vista, Windows 10 is just a renamed 8 to trick the masses

Still amazes me people hold onto old crap for so long. Is someone still gaming on an 8350 and complaining about bad performance too I wonder lol

"

LegendaryMewtwo wrote:

Win7 isn't even supported anymore... do you fools willingly want to get hacked?

LMAO I love how people thinks they will suddenly get hacked because their OS stopped getting support.
I can assure you that milions people out there have old pirated version that is NOT SUPPORTED AT ALL and they are not getting hacked.

"

Phrazz wrote:

but rather with aesthetics and information gathering

This summarizes a big part of it, but not all. Or I could simply say "I don't like it", and that's good enough reason to not use it. Why would I want to buy something I don't like? If I like vanilla ice cream and don't like peach ice cream, why would I buy peach ice cream?

Add to that what MS has been doing for the last 25-30 years or more. They want to take away the ability of using your own computer the way you want, and decide for themselves how you will use it. With every OS it becomes worse and worse.

As far as aesthetics, and functionality to some degree, one of the very first things I do with a new OS, or reinstalling an old OS, is to switch to "classic" view, which basically means I'm making it look like win 95.

I'd still be using XP if I could. Well I DO still use it on my old computer. But I'd use it on my main computer if I could. But both hardware and software companies (like GGG) pretty much force you to update sooner or later. The entire computer and software industry is built around that. That's why the quality of hardware sucks so badly. They assume you'll upgrade after a short time so there is no need to make something that lasts.

It's an endless cycle, with hardware companies forcing software upgrades, and software companies forcing hardware upgrades. You can say it's a choice, but that's only partly true. If you want to play new games for example, you aren't given much choice. A company like GGG is perfectly capable of making a game that will run fine on a ten year old computer with an old OS, but they don't.

There is really no need for continuous upgrades. Modern computers are blazing fast. That's been true for 20 years, which is about when you no longer had to wait on a computer except certain specialized applications

This is related to the reason why software companies are now charging annual or monthly fees for software. People realized that there was no reason to upgrade any more, which means there is no reason to buy the product.

Games are different. People want new games. But there is no reason why a new games needs a brand new computer, other than entirely optional stuff, especially graphics. But none of that is needed for a good game. The devs keep doing it because they can. Then the players have to pay the price of computer upgrades that should be totally unnecessary. The devs do it entirely by choice.

Win 10 is junk. It just MS forced you to accept that pile of shit by not selling more stable version of the window the Win 7 and stop giving it DX12.

I am forced to use Win 10, but it is stockpile of bug due to their implantation of app store and mobile and try to use the model of mirco-update the window by pushing apps in beta stage over and over again.

"

harddaysnight wrote:

Spoiler

"

Phrazz wrote:

but rather with aesthetics and information gathering

This summarizes a big part of it, but not all. Or I could simply say "I don't like it", and that's good enough reason to not use it. Why would I want to buy something I don't like? If I like vanilla ice cream and don't like peach ice cream, why would I buy peach ice cream?

Add to that what MS has been doing for the last 25-30 years or more. They want to take away the ability of using your own computer the way you want, and decide for themselves how you will use it. With every OS it becomes worse and worse.

As far as aesthetics, and functionality to some degree, one of the very first things I do with a new OS, or reinstalling an old OS, is to switch to "classic" view, which basically means I'm making it look like win 95.

I'd still be using XP if I could. Well I DO still use it on my old computer. But I'd use it on my main computer if I could. But both hardware and software companies (like GGG) pretty much force you to update sooner or later. The entire computer and software industry is built around that. That's why the quality of hardware sucks so badly. They assume you'll upgrade after a short time so there is no need to make something that lasts.

It's an endless cycle, with hardware companies forcing software upgrades, and software companies forcing hardware upgrades. You can say it's a choice, but that's only partly true. If you want to play new games for example, you aren't given much choice. A company like GGG is perfectly capable of making a game that will run fine on a ten year old computer with an old OS, but they don't.

There is really no need for continuous upgrades. Modern computers are blazing fast. That's been true for 20 years, which is about when you no longer had to wait on a computer except certain specialized applications

This is related to the reason why software companies are now charging annual or monthly fees for software. People realized that there was no reason to upgrade any more, which means there is no reason to buy the product.

Games are different. People want new games. But there is no reason why a new games needs a brand new computer, other than entirely optional stuff, especially graphics. But none of that is needed for a good game. The devs keep doing it because they can. Then the players have to pay the price of computer upgrades that should be totally unnecessary. The devs do it entirely by choice.

Are you for real?

"I don't like it" absolutely is sufficient. You're allowed. It's a free world, and you're free to do whatever you want.

But the world moves forward. New technology comes out. New code efficiency comes out. New way to make drivers come out. New standards. New shit. It has always been like this, it will always be like this. Creating an OS that will be relevant for 30 years is impossible. Everything you know about technology should've told you that a long, long time ago.

So yes, you're allowed to run XP. But IF you run XP, you're not allowed to whine about games taking advantage of newer technology that XP can't even come close to handle. You're not allowed to long for hardware that people hadn't even thought of when XP was created.

"

Phrazz wrote:

New code efficiency comes out. New way to make drivers come out. New standards. New shit. It has always been like this, it will always be like this.

I agree with this, except maybe the last part that it will always be like that. You can't predict the future and I see a very real possibility that it won't always be like that. I already gave the example of software and cloud computing with a fee. That's because people figured out they don't need the latest and greatest.

It might seem like I'm stuck in the past with technology. I see the exact opposite. There is a mentality that came from the past, which shoud be left in the past, but it persists. That is the idea that people constantly need upgrades. They want the latest and greatest, just because it's the latest and greatest.

It's a way of thinking about technology that comes from the past, when each incremental increase in commuting power made a real and very noticeable difference. A business, for example, could quantify a real increase in productivity by purchasing a new computer. You didn't need to run benchmarks to know it saved time. It was very obvious to any casual observer.

By the late 90s to early 2000s, that was no longer true. You could buy the next gen computer, including the OS and applications. Then when you see it run, you could scratch your head and wonder "Was that really faster, or was it my imagination?".

By that time, we had reached a threshold. We had gotten to the point that we no longer had to wait on computers for the large majority of applications. During the 90s, it wasn't games that drove the high end market, it was CAD systems. But even with CAD systems, by the late 90s - early 2000s, you no longer had to wait. Applying a surface and rendering that took an hour in 1991, happened in real time in 2000.

We had reached a threshold. We were no longer getting huge jumps in performance with each generation. In other words, we reached the point of serious diminishing returns 20 years ago.

But the psychological mentality still persists. A lot of people think they are getting something by spending more money, when they aren't. They are stuck in the past as much as me, but in a different way. I see and fully accept the technology. This is 2020. In 2020 the only reason for most people to need a new and supposedly faster computer is for the reasons I've stated.

Every new OS claims it's faster. And maybe it is. But the software industry makes use of it, pushes it to the limit, and almost immediately cancels out any increase in performance. You have zero net performance increase for the vast majority of applications.

Look at SSDs. With POE, an SSD makes a huge and very noticeable difference, mainly in loading. As devs make use of that technology, they will push it to the limit. Before long we will be back to the same load times we had with an HDD. I don't mean GGG specifically, but the industry as a whole.

Gaming pushes the computer market. But gamers are not the only computer users. The industry depends on the average person to make money. Without the average person, the hardware would become much more expensive. The average computer user has no need of a fast modern computer. We crossed that threshold 20 years ago. But for now, people keep buying them because of a collective mentality that faster is better. Until someday people figure out that it's not really faster.

When you are driving a car 100 km/hr, buying a car that does 500 gives no advantage over a car that does 400. With the exception of some games and a small number of other things, that's where we are today. That's not living in the past. That's living in the present.

Yes, it keeps going. My entire point is that there is no need to, except for some niche markets. If the general public stops living in the past, and realises they aren't getting anything for their money, then the rest of the market becomes a specialty market.


In markets like scientific reasearch, doing simulations and modeling, there is a need for faster. In a small number of business and industrial markets there is a need. In gaming, the "need" is not a need. It's voluntary by the devs to utilize what's available, and voluntary by gamers who think it's worth it to buy high end computers to play a game.

Even with gamers, can it continue? How many people does it take to look at their super fast computer and realize it just became a toaster because the devs thought adding some sparkly Christmas decorations looked cool?

But but but but.....I'd rather see the cursor!

Please read my follow up post here. You don't buy Windows 10, just download the media creation tool 1909, run it to make a flash drive install, and then run it to upgrade to Win 10. My first attempt failed because it stopped and asked me to enter a Windows 10 CoA. The one I had it didn't like so I backed out of the install, ran a utility called KMSpico portable v10.2, converted my Windows licence from an OEM licence to GVLK licence, then reran the Windows 10 v1909 setup again. This time it just went on and didn't ask for a Windows 10 CoA (it used my Windows 7 Pro CoA) and did the upgrade to 10 Pro. No fuss, no muss, and everything works same as Windows 7, only faster, and on Windows 10 with my gaming rig hardware PoE doesn't stutter anymore under heavy computational loads.

I do have a weird PoE problem that I will need to resolve. Running last night PoE loaded and ran perfectly. Today it wanted to to an update to patch 3.9.2d which mysteriously failed about 1/4th of the way through it. Now it tries to update every time I run PoE, still fails, but continues on and let's me play PoE patch 3.9.2c without any problems (yet). I can't tell if my Content.ggpk file is damaged or not (I may have to rename it and let PoE download the whole file again) so that's the only negative affect of upgrading to Windows 10.

thank you, OP, for sharing your experience with the OS upgrade.

keep your american spyware for yourself

lol