When people say PoE has no competition...

You clearly don't know what that means. That couldn't have been more on topic.

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You clearly don't know what that means. That couldn't have been more on topic.

Trying to debunk argument with false logic that is out of context is exactly that.

Don't give a different genre and a game as example as why torchlight isn't Pw2. Also being able to buy your gear with money hardly sounds fair. Buying max level (WoW i assume?) isn't pay to win, it's literally removing the pointless leveling the game currently has. People will suck regardless. It's on Blizzard for being incapable of making the leveling worth it.

What you call fine is simple Korean way of managing a game, a way that KILLED every single game that came to the west.


A rng item game, with drop boosters and some kind of relics isn't P2W? A game that promotes party play in that way? Mate...there is one thing i can guarantee you, eventually a content that requires party will be released, then we will see how fun it is.

"Need DPS, have booster, we going on som boss killin".

Then we have the hidden P2W "you know, you can farm this right? Well...you can get it in 5 months or simply throw 5$." Thats how predatory tactics work, brainwashing people with "Uh they simply don't have time".

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Exile009 wrote:

...what you really mean is that it has no competition that's toppled it yet. PoE does have competition - Diablo 3, Grim Dawn, Wolcen, Torchlight 2, Last Epoch, Warhammer 40,000: Inquisitor – Martyr, etc.

These are all ARPGs.

Doesn't matter if you think they're not good enough - that's my whole point. If you really wanted to play an ARPG and PoE didn't exist, you'd be playing one of these (or any others I've missed). PoE has competition - it's just outcompeted them all so far.

The only competition that PoE had was Diablo 3, and even that isnt anymore. Saying those other games are competition for PoE is like saying some fatty child who just started running is competition to Usain Bolt.

Wasn't false logic at all, your words were "pinnacle of P2W", I pointed out what real P2W was. And it's not at all throw 5 dollars in and get what you want. It's throw 5 dollars in and get a slightly increased chance of what you want, or play in a party for that chance like every other game does. They are giving out nothing that a free player can't also get. And since you tried to bring relics up again, how about every other ARPG that sells classes? Is that not massively more P2W?

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Aynix wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

...what you really mean is that it has no competition that's toppled it yet. PoE does have competition - Diablo 3, Grim Dawn, Wolcen, Torchlight 2, Last Epoch, Warhammer 40,000: Inquisitor – Martyr, etc.

These are all ARPGs.

Doesn't matter if you think they're not good enough - that's my whole point. If you really wanted to play an ARPG and PoE didn't exist, you'd be playing one of these (or any others I've missed). PoE has competition - it's just outcompeted them all so far.

The only competition that PoE had was Diablo 3, and even that isnt anymore. Saying those other games are competition for PoE is like saying some fatty child who just started running is competition to Usain Bolt.

That's not fair either, all things being equal.

PoE has gone through enormous amounts of polish and change to reach the heights it is now.

Many of us old timers remember the years of desynch, performance problems, no trade api, no map or currency tabs, ect, ect. (Just to name a few, we could go on a LONG time here)

Point is you dont really know how good a live service game can get once its put out there and player input helps mold a game. I dont think Chris or the team (and I dont think they do) should take any of these "smaller" titles lightly.

Ultimatley will any of them put PoE to pasture? Not very likely at all. But if it starts taking hundreds of thousands, or millions, in income away, that might cause some developer heartburn.

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Wasn't false logic at all, your words were "pinnacle of P2W", I pointed out what real P2W was. And it's not at all throw 5 dollars in and get what you want. It's throw 5 dollars in and get a slightly increased chance of what you want, or play in a party for that chance like every other game does. They are giving out nothing that a free player can't also get. And since you tried to bring relics up again, how about every other ARPG that sells classes? Is that not massively more P2W?

What are all those ARPGS you talk about? And yes drop boosters are P2W.

D1
D2
Sacred
Sacred 2
Titan Quest
Grim Dawn
PoE
Dungeon Siege I
Dungeon Siege II

These are THE ARPGS, i don't know what other ARPGS you know, but judging by their popularity, i already have a good idea why i haven't heard of them.

Wolcen, and LE don't really count since they are far from ready.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not fair either, all things being equal.

PoE has gone through enormous amounts of polish and change to reach the heights it is now.

Many of us old timers remember the years of desynch, performance problems, no trade api, no map or currency tabs, ect, ect. (Just to name a few, we could go on a LONG time here)

Point is you dont really know how good a live service game can get once its put out there and player input helps mold a game. I dont think Chris or the team (and I dont think they do) should take any of these "smaller" titles lightly.

Ultimatley will any of them put PoE to pasture? Not very likely at all. But if it starts taking hundreds of thousands, or millions, in income away, that might cause some developer heartburn.

I think you dont understand something. PoE doesnt have competition AT THIS MOMENT. Sure, those game can become giants just like PoE did, but it will be so far in the future there is no point theorizing now.

PoE is the WoW of ARPG.

No, I don't mean that entirely as a compliment.

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Kasapnica wrote:

What are all those ARPGS you talk about? And yes drop boosters are P2W.

D1
D2
Sacred
Sacred 2
Titan Quest
Grim Dawn
PoE
Dungeon Siege I
Dungeon Siege II

These are THE ARPGS, i don't know what other ARPGS you know, but judging by their popularity, i already have a good idea why i haven't heard of them.

Wolcen, and LE don't really count since they are far from ready.

I don't know anything about Titan Quest or Grim Dawn, but all of those others were meant to be single player offline games, that is completely different.

Edit: vvv That's most likely not how it's gonna be at all.

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Kasapnica wrote:

Let me tell you what that means. ULTRA retarded drop chance, literally non existent, and all kinds of potions and P2W shop items to boost it.

The thing that hurt me the most was the name at the bottom...Max Schaefer.

If you think that stash tabs are P2W, then better prepare yourselves.

This is why it's a hard pass for me.

"Create pain and then sell the cure" is straight out of the "mobile F2P bullshit" playbook.

If they go cosmetics only, then okay.

If they scrap the F2P model and sell the game with an upfront price, then okay.

If they keep things how they're shaping up now? I'll continue to call it P2W and not download or play it.