For the love of god, please remove Labyrinth from game.

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Ultratacofish wrote:

I never really enjoyed the lab simply because it is a very lazy reuse of tilesets and doesnt have any interesting interactions at all apart from when you finish it and get the rewards.

Are you aware that they are tilesets that were made for the lab are are being reused for other areas ?

Are you also aware that interaction wise, the lab is pretty much the area of the whole game where you have the highest number of interactions since you are often directly interacting with the environment to go through trap gauntlets ?
So those two things ... when the lab was introduced (and still now) were two of the main things that the lab brought into the game.

I can get over lab - simply because once im done there and in rare cases after buying service, i don't ever have to deal with it again.

It is because of the traps that i don't enjoy lab, not a fitting piece of ARPG content just showed in there i don't want to play such game. The traps are zero fun for me, i avoid all content with them unless my char is just unkillable by them.

All in all, the only thing i'd really ask for is some of the traps to be toned down, and i'm talking about the specific trap layout/gauntlets whatever they are called, it should be quite easy to dodge them and you should have space to stand safe etc. None of these clusterfucked monsterannoying trap spawns where you can't see where you are going and end up just charging through hoping for the best.

As a whole, i welcome lab, i do venture in there sometimes very rarely and it's good with something different for people to farm.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

... i wouldn't be quoting you at all. This part seems very offensive, like you are either trolling or just been mean. I can't think of something else. Care to shed some light to the context? That is, if you want to.

What is there to explain? Even the good book says that the rewards are sweeter when they're earned by own sweat and tears.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

If liking a challenge in a game is being mean to you, then I guess I am mean.

So for you challenge is a content that is (by your words) highly tedious and borderline frustrating?

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Xavathos wrote:

Anyway, where in this thread did I become the subject of debate? Focus, Blade.

I don't think you are the subject of debate. I'm just quoting you, that's all. As for Focusing, that's a pretty good advice for you as well..

If you hadn't said this... :

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Xavathos wrote:

If they put the Ascendancy points behind an even more tedious and borderline frustrating piece of content, I'd be more than fine if they disconnected them from the Lab.

... i wouldn't be quoting you at all. This part seems very offensive, like you are either trolling or just been mean. I can't think of something else. Care to shed some light to the context? That is, if you want to.

I can think of something else. The thread title is a bit of a troll and it made him post a mean or trolling post in response?

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Fruz wrote:

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Ultratacofish wrote:

I never really enjoyed the lab simply because it is a very lazy reuse of tilesets and doesnt have any interesting interactions at all apart from when you finish it and get the rewards.

Are you aware that they are tilesets that were made for the lab are are being reused for other areas ?

Are you also aware that interaction wise, the lab is pretty much the area of the whole game where you have the highest number of interactions since you are often directly interacting with the environment to go through trap gauntlets ?
So those two things ... when the lab was introduced (and still now) were two of the main things that the lab brought into the game.

The lab itself feels more like a dungeon rather than its namesake due to the linear pathing and it pretty much tells you where you are at the start of each level so how is it even remotely a labyrinth. The interesting interactions I was looking for were things like puzzles that tested you mentally and physically game wise. The traps are obvious and easy to counter(movement skills or highhp/physres/regen). The lab itself felt lazy to me because it lacks the flavorful art style this game has proven it can achieve. It was a good idea, poorly executed in my opinion but if you enjoy it then that's fine. Thanks for reading my post and responding without slander as it seems rare these days to have a discussion that doesn't resort to name calling and insults. Have a great day.

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Mythreindeer wrote:

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Ultratacofish wrote:

I enjoyed it while it lasted but there are games that dont purposely waste my time that I can play instead.

If you're going to throw that out there then you really should list the games that aren't wasting your time so you may be judged accordingly.

I have been enjoying grim dawn, Divinity original sin 1-2 and replaying the witcher 2-3.

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Ultratacofish wrote:

The lab itself feels more like a dungeon rather than its namesake due to the linear pathing and it pretty much tells you where you are at the start of each level so how is it even remotely a labyrinth. The interesting interactions I was looking for were things like puzzles that tested you mentally and physically game wise. The traps are obvious and easy to counter(movement skills or highhp/physres/regen). The lab itself felt lazy to me because it lacks the flavorful art style this game has proven it can achieve. It was a good idea, poorly executed in my opinion but if you enjoy it then that's fine. Thanks for reading my post and responding without slander as it seems rare these days to have a discussion that doesn't resort to name calling and insults. Have a great day.

I can understand what you are saying, but it's overall more interaction than the rest of the game to me ( apart from the lack of league mechanics), and it added a bit of tileset diversity when it came out, as well as new soundtrack ( I still like Izaro's line and the pieces of lore in the lab ).

I would have enjoyed more of a labyrinthic environement too I think, I also like puzzles, but I fear most people might not have enjoyed more puzzles in it.

Let's see, you don't like Lab, but it's mandatory because Ascendancy points are gated behind it... But much more content is gated behind main story line! Where are hundreds of threads "Remove acts, make acts optional"?

The only real issue with lab is that the enchant system is basically broken at a fundamental level.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

... i wouldn't be quoting you at all. This part seems very offensive, like you are either trolling or just been mean. I can't think of something else. Care to shed some light to the context? That is, if you want to.

Just trying to keep up with the Lab hating lingo. Had I known my single post here in this thread would be used as the end all be all of my opinion on everything the game is and will ever be, I'd have worded it differently, but oh look, it's just a post. One in thousands.


That said, I'd be more than happy to shed some light on the context. I wasn't being or even suggesting anything remotely offensive. What I said was sarcasm, but even if I liked tedious and frustrating things, I'm very much allowed to, am I not? If that offends you, that's your problem, mate.

I did however mean that I would NOT be okay with Ascendancy points just being given out willy nilly to the first kid to tie his/her shoe laces. It's supposed to be a trial of ascendancy and a trial by definition means a test, a challenge. So like I said, I'd be fine with them disconnecting those points from the Lab, as long as they lock them behind something equally challenging. I think that's already being generous, because a lot of the challenge has already been taken out of the Lab over the years.

And therein lies the problem, because even after that, I still hear Lab haters complain, which tells me just one thing: They want free points, which in turn makes me ignore their arguments toward the Lab, because they've proven themselves NOT to be arguing the Lab, but the points it rewards and that is an entirely different topic.

This enough light for you?

I think the core of anti-lab sentiment is that the lab is a different playstyle than the rest of the game. Trap-dodging gauntlets is a different skill than is required for most of the game. If this was just a fun side thing you could do for optional rewards like enchants, the chests at the end, etc. that would be fine. Ascendency is the core of a build these days, and the game is balanced around players having it.

Imagine if we were playing a reflex-based card game like slapjack but I introduced a rule where you need to beat an advanced Sudoku puzzle to have your wins count.

Personally, I enjoy the lab when I run it. The rewards are nice, but some of the trap gauntlets are frustrating (I can only see one screen of traps, and if there's no "Safe space" in that screen I have to run headlong into the traps as a leap of faith). It hasn't happened in a while, but I recall wanting to break my computer when I finally got to the end of a lab and got a crash.

Bottom line: I see where the anti-lab people are coming from. If the Ascendency points were moved into the more traditional gameplay of PoE, that would be fine.