For the love of god, please remove Labyrinth from game.

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Apachy wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

It is constructed as it is so you can't just death-rush your way to ascendancies/enchantments. The ascendancies and enchantments are gated content requiring you to have a survivable character. This is a pretty good principle.

Bullsh@t! Do you know why?
Because you can hire people to kill Izaro for you. They will also get the golden key, which is obligatory gated by a trap room.
Therefore, the Lab does NOT require any survivability.

Even if you are super bad with traps - take 5 antibleed flasks and use golem with vitality aura.

Lab is a bad design. It does not feet to this game.

There were leagues when I had lab-farmer caracters.
Yes, it can be very profitable but I hate it anyway.

If you pay to cheat, that's your problem. By design it's fine. If anything would need to be changed then, it would be stopping paying for carries. But then you'd have to do it yourself. :)

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Apachy wrote:

Angry post...

It is a logical fallacy to use one mechanic you don't like (carries) to say that another you don't like (lab) is flawed.

The lab as designed fit the game well as it (as said) provide gated access to some very valuable content. This is how it should be.

If you want GGG to change it, while of.c. keeping the gate principle as it has a purpose, just propose a better solution and I'm pretty sure they'll listen :-)

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angelobiancofaithpride wrote:

Labyrinth has been the bane of many players for many leagues now, causing massive outcry among the community and generally just being an annoying pain in the arse. Making Labyrinth obligatory is insanity and I avoid doing Labyrinth whenever possible (with the exception of ascendancy because I don't get a choice).

I can't be alone in wishing this boring ass piece of sh* content to disapper forever.

Meanwhile I've never had any issue completing labyrinths, maybe go hunting for the Dark Shrines? For a few years now they've been changed to only provide buffs that make things easier/more rewarding for you without increasing difficulty.

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Xavathos wrote:

If you pay to cheat, that's your problem. By design it's fine. If anything would need to be changed then, it would be stopping paying for carries. But then you'd have to do it yourself. :)

How is it cheating?
Groups are allowed here, you know.
Even if you play with your friends, some of them will deal more damage, thus, carring you.

Cyzax
I am not angry, I am just tired of it.
In addition, Shaper, Uber Elder, Uber Atziri, Legion generals, Mastermind - gated content.
Lab is just tedious but you have to do it anyway.
There were many good solutions. However, GGG does not listen. They have their own "balancing team" for that. LOL

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

Usually it is a wasted energy trying to reason with someone that defends the lab - because he will throw at you the same generic arguments over & over. There are exceptions to this rule but honestly what you will usually be dealing with is not to different from a religious fanatic.

Ugh, trying to offend people is a bad way to argue and deals tremendous damage to your credibility going forward in this discussion.

The fact is that the Lab is a trial of ascendancy and the passives are a result of said ascendancy. You can like that or not, but that's the way it is.

It is of course up to you to like it or not, but don't try to argue away facts with subjective opinions. That's just silly.

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Apachy wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

If you pay to cheat, that's your problem. By design it's fine. If anything would need to be changed then, it would be stopping paying for carries. But then you'd have to do it yourself. :)

How is it cheating?
Groups are allowed here, you know.
Even if you play with your friends, some of them will deal more damage, thus, carring you.

Cheating is subjective.

Trial of the Lab is meant to test your character's worthiness, so IMHO it's a personal test. If you are willing to pay someone else to do it for you, by all means, but in my book you're a cheater, for what it's worth.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

I do not want ascendancy points to be handed over to me on a silver platter (this is another silly argument they make to make you feel guilty & eventually retreat). Most people that don't like the lab have already stated that they would prefer an alternative way of getting the points - equally or more challenging than Lab. Yet they keep throwing at you the "you want power for free" argument, despite already explained you want exactly the opposite. It is like they are mocking you on your face.

They also say that the Lab is easy. Well they are right. GGG, in order to appease (for a while) the crowd of those who dislike Lab, annihilated the first two labs (...and the 3rd) by making them completely moronic to play. They are so easy that even spending 5 minutes inside makes me feel that my body is ready to spontaneously combust. We would be better off if the kept it as it was but started to develop an alternative mechanic\content to acquire ascendancy points, than having to endure this..chore. I do not believe for a moment that there is a lack of creativity inside GGG.

In before they make lab (or a other way to recieve your ascendacy) more challenging and people start complaining about the new way.

Lab is not hard if you gather information about it. In the first lab you learn different traps and how izaro works. Lab 2 + 3 are more challenging in terms of length and trap variety. Uber lab is something else. Here you learn that damage and a huge lifepool wont safe you, if you dont pay attention or gather information about the encounter. Thats not different from other encounter like uber elder or shaper/guardians.

Im not sure, but i dont see many people from HC complaining about lab that much. Everytime i read something from lab beeing shit, i assume people just died to 2hand izaro with gargoyles and charges.

I agree, the lab itself has some flaws. getting a DC or the game crashes can be frustrating, especially at the start of a league when builds are still new and the game tends to crash/create bugs.

Maybe some savepoint after izaro could be a option, but this could be abused if there is stil a darkshrine, so you could change the buff by just resetting the layout.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

Here is an example of me been honest with GGG :

Labyrinth sucks beyond any recognition.
...

This isnt how you convince anyone. This is just ranting and nothing more.
If you really want to achieve something, dont tell them their creation, their work sucks beyond recognition.
This is how you make them ignore you, not listen to you.



On topic:
Im not a massive fan of the lab nor a hater.
I dont care tbh. There is good stuff I want in there, so Im gonna do it - thats basically the bottom line.


The only thing I like about the lab is that you are able to targetfarm very specific and powerful rewards with extremely little effort involved.
Usually GGG would totally hide/gate this sort of power behind a massive time investment also called RNG.

So Im willing to deal the labs downsides, because RNG doesnt exist in this context. Translation: This is actually helping casual players for once.

Finally:
Ive been around here for a long time and I know GGG isnt going to give away this kind of power for free. They might move the ascendancy points from the lab elsewhere at some point in time - but DO NOT assume you will like this change. Be careful what you are asking for!

They might as well go ahead and be like:
Sure we´ll move the ascendancy stuff. You´ll find in delve now, depths 600+ on a rare tileset we just introduced. Good luck finding that - hope you are happy now.
Or even way worse.


It might be annoying right now, sure. But thats the opportunity costs attached to the power you are rewarded with. Do not expect that to change ever. Do not assume changes (the opportunity costs involved) will make it easier, more pleasant, less annoying to get the ascendancy points.

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Xavathos wrote:

Cheating is subjective.

Trial of the Lab is meant to test your character's worthiness, so IMHO it's a personal test. If you are willing to pay someone else to do it for you, by all means, but in my book you're a cheater, for what it's worth.

Cheating is a violation of rules (written, social, moral, etc).
In this case the game should be only SSF.
Worthiness?
We are not Thors to prove our worthiness. I have already said that there is nothing difficult about Uber lab. It is just annoing. For example, I am almost 86 and still cannot find the last trial. Sure, I can buy it but why should I? Why am I artificially restricted from progressing in the game?

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Apachy wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Cheating is subjective.

Trial of the Lab is meant to test your character's worthiness, so IMHO it's a personal test. If you are willing to pay someone else to do it for you, by all means, but in my book you're a cheater, for what it's worth.

Cheating is a violation of rules (written, social, moral, etc).
In this case the game should be only SSF.
Worthiness?
We are not Thors to prove our worthiness. I have already said that there is nothing difficult about Uber lab. It is just annoing. For example, I am almost 86 and still cannot find the last trial. Sure, I can buy it but why should I? Why am I artificially restricted from progressing in the game?

because you dont pray hard enough to RNGesus.

PoE is all about RNG. Some people need months to get the last trial (not actual playtime) some get them within a week. Even then, its supposed to be harder to get to the last lab. Thats why you have 3 labs beforehead, which give you the skills you need the most (uber is just to pick the last two points for a small bonus in most builds)

Another reason is, even tho the last lab has lvl 75 mobs in it, you will get mowed down either by izaro or argus if you wanna run it with that level. lvl 80+ or your level 85 is the better. Since you can easily overpower any mobs within and izaro+argus wont be that hard anymore.

Really, the only hard part is nasty trap combinations (posion slow + whirling blades) izaro on steroids or some disconnect/crash of the game.

Other than that, its just longer than your usual map and if you die, you have to restart. Not much difference from a hardcore character in my eyes.