Lab is terrible
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The basic problem with labyrinth is that it is not fun. The game needs to be fun. The play style in labyrinth is different from the rest of the game. If you like it then great. Many people don't like it. I find it irritating and boring. I didn't like it before I learned it. I don't like it now that I have learned it. It is just not fun.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" tell thet to the people who run it endlessly everyday :D Trust your mind and strengthen your abilities!
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First and second lab is dead easy. The third provides a bit of challenge but is most certainly doable before reaching maps. The final lab is hard enough to provide a challenge but easy enough to beat once when you get geared for maps. The only problem is the trials rng spawning unless you are playing meme animate weapon or something.
About the fun part. I think serves as a fun challenge and I like doing it a few times for my points. I don't enjoy running it for profit. |
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" LOL FUN is not PROFIT though I guess for some people it is the same thing |
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" Your personal experience has nothing to do with the design of the game though. Trying to justify it this way is simply ridiculous. What we have at the moment is GGG steadily dumbing down the main game progression while at the same time introducing broken mechanic after broken mechanic. All of them absolutely astonishing ideas... but implemented so badly it makes anyone knowing about game-design vomit from seeing it. Also you don't seem to understand what the difference between 'proper balance' and 'spoon feeding' is. Maybe you should widen your horizon, go and play a few other ARPGs for a while, as well as general other RPGs and look how they're build. Take the well made ones and let their design show you how it's done properly. Maybe you will then move from a solely subjective decision-base to one which looks at the underlying mechanic and doesn't lack the understanding of why so MANY people find the mechanic absolute utter and ridiculous garbage. At least in the state it's implemented right now. Also, bad information about a game isn't something which is good, if you want to be a wiki-knight... be free, though that rather sounds (sounds, I'm not even suggesting you actually mean it that way) like you're jealous someone else wouldn't need to do this awful and outdated method of acquiring information anymore. Also 'discovering' main game-mechanics is in no manner 'joy', it's something which should be provided in every single game. Just take a simple look at games doing it right: Monster Hunter World, tutorial which tells you everything, nonetheless you need to explore a lot to discover, but those are 'proper' discoveries, not learning how to play the main-game in some shite way. Dark Souls, giving you every single possible thing you can do via in-game messages along the way, right before every important moment at the start. Sure, you're learning move-sets from enemies and about secret areas, but that's it, everything else is fed to you, and that's good. Darkest Dungeon, whenever any sort of game mechanic pops up it's described in detail, still you got a very engaging and extremely hard game, having to 'explore' the game in those parts it's meant to explore it. How to beat enemy groups properly, what interactive stuff does, what cool items there are and so on. All of them provide a well thought-out tutorial for their respective play-style and genre. All of them are SUPERIOR in this regard to PoE, vastly so. That should be obvious for anyone taking a single glance. Throwing some barely visible messages and convoluted written tutorials at a player rather then engaging him via an interactive experience so he understand the mechanics... that's what games did 10 years ago. PoE is beyond it's times in this regard, they messed up, clear and simple. Same with the layout of the game, core-design is there, rewarding, not overly hard, not a single 'hiccup' in pacing at those. Each of them feel 'right' respective to the intended difficulty of their game-style. PoE is riddled by now with pacing-issues (Act 1-10 are trivial for most, Lab is a bother in the way, Shaper is overly easy, Mapping feels like a chore to complete rather then engaging,...) so much it's just sad. Yeah, PoE isn't for 'everyone', that's true. Nonetheless PoE is for every single ARPG fan who likes complexity and lots of content, that's its purpose. A purpose which is lost more and more as those bad design-choices creep into the game. Namely core-progression tied to vastly different game-style. Addition of new skills and changes of passive-tree without adjusting the core progression around it (Act 1-10 trivialization). Providing systems which are purely based on RNG to make them rewarding rather then engaging game-play (Most side-content rewards, target-farming isn't possible or extremely cumbersome). Well... and many more issues. Lab is one of those issues, plain and simple. " Phys reduction isn't implemented in the majority of the builds, many need to adjust it solely for running lab via changing the Pantheon, changing out flasks, worst case taking off vaal pact for the run. That's got nothing to do with 'being defensive'. My cold damage debuff won't help me in there. Exploding groups of mobs to alleviate damage won't help me in there. A large EHP-Pool won't help me in there. Ranged skills won't help me in there either especially. Leech and curses with leech-effect won't either. So.. we got phys reduction which is mandatory to have a relaxing life in lab. Nice balance, great game-play. Provides interesting content for everyone *clap clap*. Maybe you might hear the sarcasm dripping from those sentences, what you're describing is just ridiculous. You're the prime example of white-knighting. Defending obviously flawed mechanics in the name of 'personal experience' rather then good design. Not even thinking that adjusting it to a proper state would make it hundred times better and more enjoyable for everyone rather then those selective FEW who do so. " Compare that amount to the people trying to run other content permanently. Heck... even Nexus is more liked then lab, should say something about the mechanic provided. Also are you counting those people who try to simply get their enchant? You shouldn't count those. Are you counting those who do it purely for profit? You shouldn't count those either. ONLY count those who do it for FUN. And THAT NUMBER is extremely LOW COMPARED to the REST OF THE PLAYER-BASE. Maybe in big big letters so you understand the game isn't turning around you alone, rather should be - simply seen from a business standpoint - an enticing long-term thing for as many people as possible. Hence everything turning people away via bad design-choices is a hindrance to that long-term plan. Given that GGG-Tencent isn't being milked like a cash-cow by now and on the downward-spiral, which I hope isn't the case. GGG balance is like getting a pizza which is burnt on the sides, raw in the middle and misses the most of the toppings.
Then upon sending it back you get a raw side, burnt middle and enough toppings to drench everything in grease. Everything fixed but still broken. |
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" im not gonna buy 200$ worth of games just to try how they feel :D that is just ridiculous.. and i ve seen gameplays. you once finish them and poof. its gone with the wind :D right into steam trash game dump i ll never play again^^ im sry but i ll never try an arpg that is not free2play. about defending the game based on my personal experience: chris explains it so well here: https://youtu.be/pM_5S55jUzk?t=1562 players watch some1 and wants to be as strong as they are in the game.remove this challenging content and every player would be a casual. There is nothing at stake after that. Just running around collecting points. WTF is that mario? i get it some people might not like it the way i do and would want instant gratification instead of taking their sweet time. but this was what i meant when i said this game is not for everybody. about lab being fun: every player has different sense of FUN in this game. we are at a point where you can choose the content you can focus on and go crazy with it. different parts of the game has different small communities that like those parts. like lab farmers or challenge providers like myself. this is the tricky part of maintaining a game with this large content, you can NEVER please every single player with every part of the game. after this comes ''we dont wanna do the lab but we have to'' part. some power dynamics are locked behind some sort of a gate in every other rpg. these are special and valuable skills. you cant just hand them out for free. if u do that your players lose the sense of progression. when they do that game become meaningless and they leave asap. last thoughts; experience is whats important when it comes to poe. lab is just another obstacle that gets easier as you experience it. dont expect it to be removed. that will never happen. if it gets easier, i ll be the first one to protest. Trust your mind and strengthen your abilities!
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" Exactly right. Besides the boss fights and trash clearing, to refill flasks, that do follow the rules (which is why one of my suggestions as an alternative to the Labyrinth is a short-cut system of just fighting Izaro 3 times on one map without traps) the tiresome and chore-like parts of the Labyrinth are the trap gauntlets that ignore stats in an effort to be challenging and "fair to all builds" but end up being anything but fair, simply dismissive - and that is where they fail an aRPG based around stats and builds and intense itemization. Regarding traps, you have very few stats that matter. The "rules" change in this mini-game: Movement speed is still king, along with movement skills (on PC, I waltzed through the Labyrinth with Blink Arrow - I have yet to try it on PS4 without quick precision destination control), then damage reduction and flasks that provide that, and massive regen. Flasks that remove bleed are essential. A minor hurrah could be given to fire defense against burning floors and evasion *might* help against slowing darts. Normal armor/defenses do little against the percentage damage, compared to normal combat with enemies in the rest of the game. Having high HP without high regen is a liability in the Labyrinth, as flasks do not scale well with health at the same rate as traps deal damage. (Lower HP can be healed entirely by a single flask charge for some builds, while higher hp builds would take several flask uses against the same damage a trap inflicts.) You cannot do anything to traps to influence them (beyond damaging the aura traps)... * no chilling/freezing them so you can slip by * no melting a switch to keep a door open... * your temporal chains curse aura? doesn't slow down mobile traps * your enfeeble curse aura? doesn't make them do any less damage that I'm aware of. * you can't destroy them, so all that damage you're gearing for? worthless. And those are just off the top of my head, in addition to those I quoted. Maybe you can get the idea from those examples. (Edit: typo) Last edited by Zaludoz#6325 on Apr 10, 2019, 1:31:25 PM
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" cant do anything about traps? uh? what about.. hmm.. timing and not stepping on them? is it too hard to time a trap while its under ground? Trust your mind and strengthen your abilities! Last edited by MrsDeath_#3960 on Apr 10, 2019, 2:11:20 PM
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" And your reply has anything to do with traps ignoring our stats how? That only goes to show that the Labyrinth is a mini-game built around avoiding traps, rather than our stats and builds interacting with them. They ignore our stats, so we have to "ignore" or dodge them entirely... Talking to people who support this is like banging my head against a wall... oh wait, percent damage, I'd better avoid that. |
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" I already told it to them. Let me separate that sentence out to make it clearer. "If you like it then great." If you like the lab game play then great. Many people don't like it though. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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