Lab is terrible

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

that alone strengthens my position on this type of not that well thought, rushed threads with useless ideas.
you dont have to change everything you find bad in a game. clearly there are people find it pretty solid and fitting to the game.
i will always stand my ground on topics i wouldnt wanna see changed in PoE.
you dismiss my opinions simply because you are dead focus on a change. thats your mistake. there shouldnt be any changes to the lab and thats for the better. those are my final thoughts and i dont see them changing anytime soon.

First of all, yes, I am very focused on a change, namely because I see a major - yes, right term used - issue with it.

I do the same with some other parts of the game, namely things which've come into existence only a short while ago, named in other threads.

You're absolutely right, you don't have to change everything. What you have to do though is to point it out, as well as offering alternatives if you see a fundamental problem with any mechanic.
If GGG then chooses this solution or any other is up to them, not listening to the complaints - within reason - to customers though... that's a major issue.

GGG does a better job with that then many other major-sized companies, but also a worse one then many indie-developers do. It's 'ok-ish' definitely and communication as well.

Nonetheless the focus is a bit skewed since quite a while, effectively working against their own Manifestos, making the game ever easier all around, barely offering long-missing QoL mechanics... which wouldn't affect gameplay in any manner, just make the game more enjoyable. And many more to count.

So... I'd rather speak up and discuss for pages and pages on end then seeing an absolute marvelous game going down the gutter ever so slowly.

"

So... I'd rather speak up and discuss for pages and pages on end then seeing an absolute marvelous game going down the gutter ever so slowly.

odd coming from suggestions that seem to want to increase the speed of which it's worsening.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

you are missing out how to remove the lab from being mendatory to being optional. while doing that you gotta keep it balanced and rewrite the whole lab storyline. you cant just remove 1 or 2 aspects of the lab and seperate them, put in a blender and serve it like an uncooked omelet.

The lab story line has nothing to do with the rest of the game. If what you're asserting is that 2 ascendancy points is the same thing as being an emperor, then that's just nonsense. Your statement doesn't make sense. If the ascendancy shrine is removed, no other change would be required. Or not even that, if another alternative was added for ascendancy points then they could just leave the ascendancy shrine and make it available elsewhere as an alternative.

you write as if its that simple but there are many things to consider. like if added/removed them how the players would react or how it would affect the game/skill balance.

Jesus man. they don't care how anyone would react or how anyone else feels. They only care about what they want, and they all think they know what is best for a company that is making boatloads of money, doing what they do.

Don't you love the people that know how GGG works, that know how people feel and make absurd claims like people actually care about the story. Seriously maybe 1% of the community care to read anything in game. I personally have never come across one of those POE lore lovers. Imagine watching a streamer who's actually reading dialog from either the npcs, or one of the lore things all over the acts. "REsonate SLeeper!" would be all u saw in chat. That is evidence enough, that not enough care about the story. God what stupid point to have to argue.

"

Xtorma wrote:

Jesus man. they don't care how anyone would react or how anyone else feels. They only care about what they want, and they all think they know what is best for a company that is making boatloads of money, doing what they do.

You nailed it! Excellent self description there Xtorma!

"

Xtorma wrote:

Jesus man. they don't care how anyone would react or how anyone else feels. They only care about what they want, and they all think they know what is best for a company that is making boatloads of money, doing what they do.

they d better care if they want player's money^^

"

Kulze wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

that alone strengthens my position on this type of not that well thought, rushed threads with useless ideas.
you dont have to change everything you find bad in a game. clearly there are people find it pretty solid and fitting to the game.
i will always stand my ground on topics i wouldnt wanna see changed in PoE.
you dismiss my opinions simply because you are dead focus on a change. thats your mistake. there shouldnt be any changes to the lab and thats for the better. those are my final thoughts and i dont see them changing anytime soon.

First of all, yes, I am very focused on a change, namely because I see a major - yes, right term used - issue with it.

I do the same with some other parts of the game, namely things which've come into existence only a short while ago, named in other threads.

You're absolutely right, you don't have to change everything. What you have to do though is to point it out, as well as offering alternatives if you see a fundamental problem with any mechanic.
If GGG then chooses this solution or any other is up to them, not listening to the complaints - within reason - to customers though... that's a major issue.

GGG does a better job with that then many other major-sized companies, but also a worse one then many indie-developers do. It's 'ok-ish' definitely and communication as well.

Nonetheless the focus is a bit skewed since quite a while, effectively working against their own Manifestos, making the game ever easier all around, barely offering long-missing QoL mechanics... which wouldn't affect gameplay in any manner, just make the game more enjoyable. And many more to count.

So... I'd rather speak up and discuss for pages and pages on end then seeing an absolute marvelous game going down the gutter ever so slowly.

I think doing such change would be throwing the game down the gutter.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

Xtorma wrote:

Jesus man. they don't care how anyone would react or how anyone else feels. They only care about what they want, and they all think they know what is best for a company that is making boatloads of money, doing what they do.

they d better care if they want player's money^^

judging by your supporter titles. they've done a very good job at keeping you happy. Now can everyone else have a turn?

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

1. It is designed for a limited build type

No, it's not.

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

2. It includes all the hated elements of poe, Massive backtracking, tons of slowing mechanics, one shots, very time consuming, etc ..

No. There are 0 backtracking, no slow, all 1shots are telegraphed 3-4 seconds before hit, time consuming... lol.

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

3. It is very time consuming

No, it is not.

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

and designed as hardcore element

No, it is not.

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

4. Massive amounts of rng just to get access to eternal lab

Yes.

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

Lab has absolutely no place as a mandatory requirement for all builds.

Labyrinth is a challenge. Do you know what is challenge? If you want those juicy ascendancy points - you have to work to acquire them. Stop whining and git gud.

PS: Lab is AWESOME.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

I think doing such change would be throwing the game down the gutter.

Which begs to question: Why?

What would be actively lost by changing this aspect of the game?

"

DivineChampion wrote:

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

1. It is designed for a limited build type

No, it's not.

It actually is.
Armour builds have not a single issue with lab usually.
Vaal Pact builds struggle greatly in comparison.
Evasion builds are useless as trap damage cannot be evaded, it's a DoT.

"

DivineChampion wrote:

No. There are 0 backtracking, no slow, all 1shots are telegraphed 3-4 seconds before hit, time consuming... lol.

A common lab run takes by FAR longer then a single map-run. It usually also takes longer then a full nexus run for many. Hence 'time consuming', which is a relative term.
Also it has a TON of slowing mechanics present, the 'totems' during many trap-sections have those.
There's definitely a hefty amount of backtracking without using PoElab, which is a third-party program so out of the discussion in this case. Also still without it, there's still a slight amount via backtracking for gold keys as well as actually finding the way to the next exit. The lab layout isn't quite straight-forward without knowing it in and out (like I do).

No 1-shots though, true.

"

DivineChampion wrote:

"

acemcgeezseries wrote:

and designed as hardcore element

No, it is not.

It actually is, you got 1 life during Lab, which is an element of hardcore to only have a single try.

If there were 6 tries as in maps or even a check-point then we could consider it softcore instead.

Same goes for 1 life zana mods, also a hardcore style in a softcore league. The only reason why it's ok there is that nothing mandatory is lost while attempting it.

"

DivineChampion wrote:

Labyrinth is a challenge. Do you know what is challenge? If you want those juicy ascendancy points - you have to work to acquire them. Stop whining and git gud.

Sure, we know what challenge is. Not talking about giving away Ascendancy points for free. I'm talking about not hiding ascendancy behind a vastly different play-style then the core-game while being mandatory for core-progression.

Hence another TYPE of challenge needs to be presented then the one we have now.

To name the issue: Traps. Behaving very different to any other danger in PoE present, hence vastly different, hence not good to attach main-progress to it.

"

It actually is, you got 1 life during Lab, which is an element of hardcore to only have a single try.

If there were 6 tries as in maps or even a check-point then we could consider it softcore instead.

...wow.

so if you can't zerg through it, it's "hardcore?"

come on.