Lab is terrible

I think you would be incredibly suprised how much phys reduction and what not you can get on hybrids and evasion even at low level.

There is a 15% reduction flask a lone which is HUGE. There is a 3000 armor flask which is also huge.....Bleed flasks for certain traps are a must just like they are for all characters for the most part in early game.

Immortal Call + Duration + CWDT. Awesome alone and with End charges even better. Phys immunity for a good amount of time.

Warlords mark works on any character for 3 end charges which are also easy as hell to keep up near 24/7 especially when using a certain warcry...I have yet to not use a COH/self cast warlords mark on starting char regardless of class...It's huge in the beginning. Late game warlord mark ring? Powerhouse. Love it.

Sorry, I do not agree that other builds are at any disadvantage at all these days. When lab first dropped yeah sure much different but then you just built towards your positives like shadow = run speed as well as ranger which reduces trap damage immensely. These days you have so much options to work with EVERYTHING is nearly viable finally...(except most melee but that will change soon).

I couldn't believe how awesome AR/ES/Pure ES/and Evasion ES build FROM START are now. I was so happy these are now viable after coming back last league from my break.

I am playing another Evasion, ES, and mom build I built my self right now. Destroying Shaper and Elder and Uber when I do it will be deathless. After next patch game will be in a solid position imo.

Sure, all viable points, can't deny that. Sure, you can make yourself half-way decently viable.

Though does that go in line with all other parts of PoE? The majority already deems it bothersome to switch a single gem before boss-fights, or use a self-damaging mechanic to trigger a buff.

Having to change 1-2 flasks, the pantheon and several gems... that's a bit much. It's fine for very specialized content as Atziri was meant to provide formerly, side-content which isn't mandatory to be run.

A beginner though... struggles once again with even working out their own build, suddenly having to re-build based on some mechanic which will only be used a single time in the game before it can be set aside is just plain bad design.

Nobody argued about the 'can do' part, the argue is about the 'is it sensible to do so' part. Which... it isn't.


Also, sure, each build is 'viable' today, though that comes from the massive power-creep implemented without adjusting the content created accordingly. We go mods which are ridiculous by now, turn time back to 3.0.0, that's when it was still half-way sensible, only a few gripes... like lab. Right now it's a pile of issues all stacked on each other, doesn't make a single one less awful though.

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Chadwixx wrote:

Miss death is really annoying

cmonBruh :(

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Kulze wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

yes yes ofc i have no clue :D
buddy nothing can make me go through even 1 of ur paragraphs :D
heres the catch about understanding tho. i dont enter this forum thinking ''these people will add something to me''.
i am here to be sure casuals are not trying to make the game easier :D
+i can trashtalk whenever i want. you cant do anything about it ^^
++i forgot when u write ''you got no clue'' to some1 else on the internet you come across as a shallow human being :):)
+++on top of that u are writing that to a player who did 100 uber labs per league for the past 5 leagues :D

Why do you think I'm writing those posts? To amke the game easier?
I'm providing options for GGG so they can finally re-implement challenging content. The game has gotten to a stupidly easy degree while the only 'challenge' presented is having lightning reflexes while the graphics hide the attacks.
Proper challenging content is rare, more then ever, that won't change unless GGG finally shifts how they 'fix' their shit.

Great design.

Hard to be shallow towards someone who lacks respect, it's the same as 'not listening'. And self-proclaimed trash-talking.

Also the amount of labs only accounts for how much of a fan you are of it, skewed perception? Try to see it from another perspective first.

maybe its because i have so many lab racer friends. or maybe its because i love how lab is consistent with its reward system.
but 1 thing is certain. its not that fast phased nor* its full of hidden attacks. i ve always been annoyed by this excuse. PEOPLE come here act like GOD DAMN 80 year olds and complain about game being too fast. AM i the only 1 being bored by how slow it is? what is this ?
stop acting like you cant see whats on ur screens. dont make fraudulent excuses.. and i thought i was being the hack here.
if u dont have connection or hardware lags every monster gives u more than a second to react.. damn this excuse pisses me off more than anything ever written on this forum*.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

maybe its because i have so many lab racer friends. or maybe its because i love how lab is consistent with its reward system.
but 1 thing is certain. its not that fast phased nor* its full of hidden attacks. i ve always been annoyed by this excuse. PEOPLE come here act like GOD DAMN 80 year olds and complain about game being too fast. AM i the only 1 being bored by how slow it is? what is this ?
stop acting like you cant see whats on ur screens. dont make fraudulent excuses.. and i thought i was being the hack here.
if u dont have connection or hardware lags every monster gives u more than a second to react.. damn this excuse pisses me off more than anything ever written on this forum*.

You know you're talking about a psychological topic called 'visual overload' while denying it's existence? Bad luck there, that's a proven concept.

The game was so straight-forward years ago because it didn't have that clutter attached, makes it look nice, doesn't make it work nice though.

Also I have fairly good reflexes, sometimes I mess up (my own fault), but the majority of deaths I have come from inexplicable sources or mechanics I can't do anything against with my build - yet.

And yes, while fast-paced play-style is fun it's also very simple-minded, fitting an arcade hack'n'slash, not a majorly complex one like PoE. Wrong choice of game there, it already got dumbed down to a massive degree, don't need that further.

My connection is fine, my Framerate has only a single occasion where it stutters for 1/10th of a second, Betrayal intervention for some reason, otherwise fluid.

All that still doesn't change the 'elitist' view about game-mechanics of yours though. Doesn't help the game to only see it from that perspective, makes it go poof as it dies rather. Compromises.

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Kulze wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

maybe its because i have so many lab racer friends. or maybe its because i love how lab is consistent with its reward system.
but 1 thing is certain. its not that fast phased nor* its full of hidden attacks. i ve always been annoyed by this excuse. PEOPLE come here act like GOD DAMN 80 year olds and complain about game being too fast. AM i the only 1 being bored by how slow it is? what is this ?
stop acting like you cant see whats on ur screens. dont make fraudulent excuses.. and i thought i was being the hack here.
if u dont have connection or hardware lags every monster gives u more than a second to react.. damn this excuse pisses me off more than anything ever written on this forum*.

You know you're talking about a psychological topic called 'visual overload' while denying it's existence? Bad luck there, that's a proven concept.

May i see the sources on this?

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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Kulze wrote:

You know you're talking about a psychological topic called 'visual overload' while denying it's existence? Bad luck there, that's a proven concept.

May i see the sources on this?

you know there won't be anything. just an insistence that you said that (you didn't) and rhetorical questions (to things already said/answered previously).

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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Tainted_Fate wrote:

my opinion is that players online count would be higher if there were no ascendancy points linked to lab completion and, for example, obligatory ten acts of storyline with obligatory skill points and so on.

player count would be much higher if this game was easier.
those numbers would go down so fast so early in the league because game is easier.
making a game simpler isnt always the better choice.
a player who would quit at the smallest hardship like lab wouldnt even reach yellow maps anyway. when you scale your game you cant take the lowest common denominator as your playerbase. if u do you ll have games like diablo in your hands.

You should not waste your time trying to explain. Nobody but GGG knows anything about sustainable numbers. If the numbers were so bad, and they directly correlated them to the lab, then it would have changed a long time ago. Money will always be king, and the lab isn't costing them more than it's making for them.

Of course , there is a possibility that GGG is terrible at running their company, and just enjoy losing tons of revenue.

( Staff meeting....So, we estimate a loss of revenue this month of 230k due to people's hatred of the lab. Management...screw em , we like the lab more than their money...write a memo to the overlords.)

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Xtorma wrote:

You should not waste your time trying to explain. Nobody but GGG knows anything about sustainable numbers. If the numbers were so bad, and they directly correlated them to the lab, then it would have changed a long time ago. Money will always be king, and the lab isn't costing them more than it's making for them.

Of course , there is a possibility that GGG is terrible at running their company, and just enjoy losing tons of revenue.

( Staff meeting....So, we estimate a loss of revenue this month of 230k due to people's hatred of the lab. Management...screw em , we like the lab more than their money...write a memo to the overlords.)

Except, their numbers are not going to tell them whether or not people "like" the Labyrinth... they made the rewards required, so if a person likes the rest of the game, they just slog through the labyrinth anyway.

(and in general, personally, I like the rest of the game enough to play without ascendancy classes... I just stop playing at the point where most people start boosting their power to crazy levels with traded gear and ascendancy classes, and wipe through maps.)

The fact that people keep playing and dragging their characters through the Labyrinth doesn't make it good content, or liked content, it's just required content.

It just goes to show how good the rest of the game is, as far as I'm concerned. (and there are plenty of flaws to keep it from being in my top 50 games list... but they have a lot of competition in my history with gaming.)

Edit: BTW, if people are not familiar with my post history on this topic, I am in favor of making the Labyrinth optional content for people who like it for enchants and massive loot, just giving others an alternative way to attain ascendancy classes outside of the mini-game. I don't call for a removal or rework of the Labyrinth that would hurt your precious fun at all - it would just make the game more fun for other people.)

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

May i see the sources on this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_overload

Have fun, it's a good introduction to the topic, it's a bit bigger though then Wikipedia lists it.
The main studies listed there are about sensory overload regarding autism, as well as sensory overload regarding marketing strategies in the modern society.
The topic spans a far larger area though, they aren't sourced there on the other hand, you'll find a few (more or less well done ones) studies about sensory overload in different areas.

Basically sensory overload happens automatically if our brain gets more information then it can comfortably handle in the short amount of time. Be it via large amounts of visual input, several people speaking to you at the same time, overlaying layers of sensation which our brain isn't well fitted to process and so on.

PoE provides visual overload in that regard. You're likely to see something but your brain being unable to actively 'register' it to block out the abundance of stimuli, hence you'll die more often and it's harder to discern the source of what's happening.

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Xtorma wrote:

You should not waste your time trying to explain. Nobody but GGG knows anything about sustainable numbers. If the numbers were so bad, and they directly correlated them to the lab, then it would have changed a long time ago. Money will always be king, and the lab isn't costing them more than it's making for them.

Companies make bad decisions on a daily basis, and companies also aren't machines.
Follow the issues on Anthem, Fallout 76, Epic game store and so on. Major mistakes which will come back to bite them, nonetheless they are doing it.

A bigger amount of input from different sources makes it easier for a company to work as well.

Also nobody said that player retention is only sitting on Lab, issues are always plenty. Some might leave because they're frustrated about lab. Some because they find the game too easy after figuring it out. Others find it too hard since it's extremely demanding to understand the game-mechanics. Again others leave because they see a lack of variability in builds. And so on.

Try to see which one does the most, you won't get feedback from people who've already left the game after all, at least very rarely. They're just gone then.

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Zaludoz wrote:

The fact that people keep playing and dragging their characters through the Labyrinth doesn't make it good content, or liked content, it's just required content.

Exactly.

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Zaludoz wrote:

Edit: BTW, if people are not familiar with my post history on this topic, I am in favor of making the Labyrinth optional content for people who like it for enchants and massive loot, just giving others an alternative way to attain ascendancy classes outside of the mini-game. I don't call for a removal or rework of the Labyrinth that would hurt your precious fun at all - it would just make the game more fun for other people.)

Same here, would be dumb to remove it. ADAPTING it though is quite another story, especially with making ascendancies not mandatory to be reached through lab anymore. Reasoning is the vastly different play-style required. Enchants, fine, also the ability to raise lab-level beyond 75 would be nice. A 83 lab would be very interesting and a reason for people to run it more.