Time Capsule from PoE Closed Beta -- a classic PoE vs D3 thread circa 2012

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Erevos wrote:

another thing that i dont like is the free to play thing, yeah go ahead play for free but your chars will always look same with all the others and eventually everybody will pay for some cosmetics...

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Erevos wrote:

another thing that i dont like is the free to play thing, yeah go ahead play for free but your chars will always look same with all the others and eventually everybody will pay for some cosmetics...

So, you would rather buy or subscribe to a game to get its variety of character appearances instead of buying only the variety you want in a free-to-play game?

"

Erevos wrote:

The most disturbing is how ppl dont want to move forward, and whatever a company does, fans arent satisfied, Diablo III was made to exists for many years and it has a lore to follow and that lore indicates a progression.

now PoE is trying to replicate D1 and D2 but without the lore and without some key elements like randomness and excitment of the areas, weapons, skills, mobs.

i like PoE but seeing what D3, Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn has to offer it will be hard to keep up.

another thing that i dont like is the free to play thing, yeah go ahead play for free but your chars will always look same with all the others and eventually everybody will pay for some cosmetics, i think Grim Dawn's way of payment is fair.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

"

Erevos wrote:

The most disturbing is how ppl dont want to move forward, and whatever a company does, fans arent satisfied, Diablo III was made to exists for many years and it has a lore to follow and that lore indicates a progression.

now PoE is trying to replicate D1 and D2 but without the lore and without some key elements like randomness and excitment of the areas, weapons, skills, mobs.

i like PoE but seeing what D3, Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn has to offer it will be hard to keep up.

another thing that i dont like is the free to play thing, yeah go ahead play for free but your chars will always look same with all the others and eventually everybody will pay for some cosmetics, i think Grim Dawn's way of payment is fair.

That's the thing though... I hear all this talk about how people don't want to move forward but my trouble is seeing that. Outside of the obvious progression of story, what else *really* moved forwards? Many of the classes are combinations of previous classes in D2, the crafting system is not exactly cutting-edge but more just how WoW did things, the runestones are basically runes that you no longer need to drop and form a runeword with and they're given for free on level, skill increasing gear is simply your talent tree disassembled and placed as an affix instead just to list a few.

You can't deny that while the gameplay may be fun and true (I'd honestly be terrified for Blizzard if they cannot get hack-and-slash down correctly) this feels very underwhelming for a sequel anticipated since we killed Baal in 2001. For a company that has boasted the slogan, "when it's done" I feel that D3 is not done yet. It is as if we are missing some vital and revolutionary parts.

And no, I don't quite see doing a copy/paste of the arena from Warcraft or incorporating a RMAH as exactly cutting edge. To me, the RMAH seems like Blizzard wants people to play this game for the possibility of money and not for the fun and addictive factor Diablo has been renowned for. From how I'm predicting things, it will come down to me acquiring a good set of gear to farm bosses for and rather than use the loot to build towards an alt, I'm stuck muttering to myself if I should sell it for real cash instead. It feels like I'm not encouraged to approach bosses in a, "I'm going to murder you now" set of items or a, "I have retarded amounts of MF" set or even assemble a PVP set.

I mentioned previously that I think, and without actual insult, that Blizzard believes the casual playerbase of their products are dumb. They wouldn't be able to grasp why people would enjoy a repetitive game like Diablo. So how do you cure that? Make them repeatedly play by introducing the almighty dollar as incentive. Now if you pick up an amazing item that may be better suited for a Witch Doctor, you cannot go around in trading rooms to find someone to offer you something for your class in exchange. Oh wait - there are no more game rooms as it is all match-making.

Colour me a Devil's advocate, but I don't see D3 as this great expansion to D2 that some claim. I see D3 more accurately as a brand new house that looks great but has poor insulation and cracks are beginning to show in the foundation.

Now certainly POE is rough around the edges and may not have the resources of a Blizzard but that is what makes it all the more charming. It's a possibility that GGG may be the next "Blizzard" and I don't know about you but I'd rather give my time at the end of the day to the underdog that shows heart than the champion that only participates soullessly.

And let's be honest, but who would've guessed in 1993/4 that a shoddy and retina-destroying Warhammer RTS rip-off would become one of the most popular game franchises and pop-culture staple?

I wouldn't count GGG or POE out of this race so soon.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

I'm disturbed when people have this undying faith that Blizzard has never made a disappointment even though Diablo III has been getting the most controversy and room for error than any other Blizzard game before it. It'll be a really great game but it all depends on where you are at this point. If I played the latest Call of Duty, I'd find it fantastic since it is my first one. If I played those before it, it may be disappointing as little was improved on or the improvements made were not necessary.

At this point, I think you don't really need to play D3 to know if you'll love it or hate it. My friend used to love Final Fantasy VII but could *never* watch Baldur's Gate for more than ten minutes. It truly is a disappointment in the sense that it is Blizzard's first "polarizing" game of sorts. Before you would have the simplicity but also the untapped complexity included. It is sort of like two people messing around in Street Fighter II in one house while two others in another are getting into the frame data and discovering all this stuff possible to do with the engine and characters.

Will Diablo III have someone like a Jarulf? I don't see it happening, personally. Blizzard has made it clear that they want to talk an already simple formula and embarrassingly simplify it more. I'll play D3 because I could be completely wrong and the game may be something truly creative and in that case I will gladly eat an article of clothing on a stream.

But my prediction is that while it will be amusing, it won't keep me around like D2 did. It even depresses me that D2 will be as barren as D1 became after that was released. At this point, POE needs to succeed because I and many others in the future will need that alternative to turn to once D3 loses the magic. D2 will likely be filled with hackers that duplicate items unattended to on the War Games... er, Battle.net v1.0 server and remove any joy from the game that it previously had. The large "boom" that D2 got since 2008 will be diminished as people will move on to D3.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

"

Erevos wrote:

The most disturbing is how ppl dont want to move forward, and whatever a company does, fans arent satisfied, Diablo III was made to exists for many years and it has a lore to follow and that lore indicates a progression.

now PoE is trying to replicate D1 and D2 but without the lore and without some key elements like randomness and excitment of the areas, weapons, skills, mobs.

i like PoE but seeing what D3, Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn has to offer it will be hard to keep up.

another thing that i dont like is the free to play thing, yeah go ahead play for free but your chars will always look same with all the others and eventually everybody will pay for some cosmetics, i think Grim Dawn's way of payment is fair.

That's the thing though... I hear all this talk about how people don't want to move forward but my trouble is seeing that. Outside of the obvious progression of story, what else *really* moved forwards? Many of the classes are combinations of previous classes in D2, the crafting system is not exactly cutting-edge but more just how WoW did things, the runestones are basically runes that you no longer need to drop and form a runeword with and they're given for free on level, skill increasing gear is simply your talent tree disassembled and placed as an affix instead just to list a few.

You can't deny that while the gameplay may be fun and true (I'd honestly be terrified for Blizzard if they cannot get hack-and-slash down correctly) this feels very underwhelming for a sequel anticipated since we killed Baal in 2001. For a company that has boasted the slogan, "when it's done" I feel that D3 is not done yet. It is as if we are missing some vital and revolutionary parts.

And no, I don't quite see doing a copy/paste of the arena from Warcraft or incorporating a RMAH as exactly cutting edge. To me, the RMAH seems like Blizzard wants people to play this game for the possibility of money and not for the fun and addictive factor Diablo has been renowned for. From how I'm predicting things, it will come down to me acquiring a good set of gear to farm bosses for and rather than use the loot to build towards an alt, I'm stuck muttering to myself if I should sell it for real cash instead. It feels like I'm not encouraged to approach bosses in a, "I'm going to murder you now" set of items or a, "I have retarded amounts of MF" set or even assemble a PVP set.

I mentioned previously that I think, and without actual insult, that Blizzard believes the casual playerbase of their products are dumb. They wouldn't be able to grasp why people would enjoy a repetitive game like Diablo. So how do you cure that? Make them repeatedly play by introducing the almighty dollar as incentive. Now if you pick up an amazing item that may be better suited for a Witch Doctor, you cannot go around in trading rooms to find someone to offer you something for your class in exchange. Oh wait - there are no more game rooms as it is all match-making.

Colour me a Devil's advocate, but I don't see D3 as this great expansion to D2 that some claim. I see D3 more accurately as a brand new house that looks great but has poor insulation and cracks are beginning to show in the foundation.

Now certainly POE is rough around the edges and may not have the resources of a Blizzard but that is what makes it all the more charming. It's a possibility that GGG may be the next "Blizzard" and I don't know about you but I'd rather give my time at the end of the day to the underdog that shows heart than the champion that only participates soullessly.

And let's be honest, but who would've guessed in 1993/4 that a shoddy and retina-destroying Warhammer RTS rip-off would become one of the most popular game franchises and pop-culture staple?

I wouldn't count GGG or POE out of this race so soon.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

"

Erevos wrote:

The most disturbing is how ppl dont want to move forward, and whatever a company does, fans arent satisfied, Diablo III was made to exists for many years and it has a lore to follow and that lore indicates a progression.

now PoE is trying to replicate D1 and D2 but without the lore and without some key elements like randomness and excitment of the areas, weapons, skills, mobs.

i like PoE but seeing what D3, Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn has to offer it will be hard to keep up.

another thing that i dont like is the free to play thing, yeah go ahead play for free but your chars will always look same with all the others and eventually everybody will pay for some cosmetics, i think Grim Dawn's way of payment is fair.

That's the thing though... I hear all this talk about how people don't want to move forward but my trouble is seeing that. Outside of the obvious progression of story, what else *really* moved forwards? Many of the classes are combinations of previous classes in D2, the crafting system is not exactly cutting-edge but more just how WoW did things, the runestones are basically runes that you no longer need to drop and form a runeword with and they're given for free on level, skill increasing gear is simply your talent tree disassembled and placed as an affix instead just to list a few.

You can't deny that while the gameplay may be fun and true (I'd honestly be terrified for Blizzard if they cannot get hack-and-slash down correctly) this feels very underwhelming for a sequel anticipated since we killed Baal in 2001. For a company that has boasted the slogan, "when it's done" I feel that D3 is not done yet. It is as if we are missing some vital and revolutionary parts.

And no, I don't quite see doing a copy/paste of the arena from Warcraft or incorporating a RMAH as exactly cutting edge. To me, the RMAH seems like Blizzard wants people to play this game for the possibility of money and not for the fun and addictive factor Diablo has been renowned for. From how I'm predicting things, it will come down to me acquiring a good set of gear to farm bosses for and rather than use the loot to build towards an alt, I'm stuck muttering to myself if I should sell it for real cash instead. It feels like I'm not encouraged to approach bosses in a, "I'm going to murder you now" set of items or a, "I have retarded amounts of MF" set or even assemble a PVP set.

I mentioned previously that I think, and without actual insult, that Blizzard believes the casual playerbase of their products are dumb. They wouldn't be able to grasp why people would enjoy a repetitive game like Diablo. So how do you cure that? Make them repeatedly play by introducing the almighty dollar as incentive. Now if you pick up an amazing item that may be better suited for a Witch Doctor, you cannot go around in trading rooms to find someone to offer you something for your class in exchange. Oh wait - there are no more game rooms as it is all match-making.

Colour me a Devil's advocate, but I don't see D3 as this great expansion to D2 that some claim. I see D3 more accurately as a brand new house that looks great but has poor insulation and cracks are beginning to show in the foundation.

Now certainly POE is rough around the edges and may not have the resources of a Blizzard but that is what makes it all the more charming. It's a possibility that GGG may be the next "Blizzard" and I don't know about you but I'd rather give my time at the end of the day to the underdog that shows heart than the champion that only participates soullessly.

And let's be honest, but who would've guessed in 1993/4 that a shoddy and retina-destroying Warhammer RTS rip-off would become one of the most popular game franchises and pop-culture staple?

I wouldn't count GGG or POE out of this race so soon.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

the runestones are basically runes that you no longer need to drop and form a runeword with and they're given for free on level