Time Capsule from PoE Closed Beta -- a classic PoE vs D3 thread circa 2012

First post here, and can't think of a better thread to post on. /agree with most of the nostalgic comments by the OP and have to say I'm truly enjoying beta access. :D

Thanks for all the positive feedback! Glad to see even more people are finding Path of Exile to their liking.

___

Okay, so I'm going to start a newish topic in here. It's something that has been nagging me for the past few play sessions, and now I think I can put it into words.

Path of Exile lacks class innovation.

I mentioned the Meleemancer in my very first post, a strange build of which I am very proud to this day. Most people now know what a Meleemancer is: it's a necromancer, or any other caster really, that eschews spells and long range damage in favour of joining the fray up close. The key to this sort of build is utilising some of the class' skills in unusual or innovative ways. Bone armor, amplify damage and life tap were my bread and butter as a Meleemancer.

So far, so good.

But Path of Exile does not force this sort of creative interpretation of a class, because all classes share the same skills. So while you many think you're being innovative with, say, a dagger-witch, all you're really doing is starting a dagger-using character a bit further away from most of the good dagger passives. You are not required to used Witch-only skills to build this dagger character -- Dual strike is there for you as much as it is for any other class, as is any other skill you might feel handy for such a build.

This applies to *any and all* suboptimal builds.

The result, of course, is that suboptimal builds in Path of Exile are a lot less sub than in other games. I'm not saying they're altogether viable all the time, just that having to use skills not necessarily designed for melee *for melee* takes a lot more innovation and...patience than simply waiting a bit longer for the same skills and passive traits.

Not once in Path of Exile have I felt like I might stumble onto a build no one's seen before. I do not see myself pioneering anything there.

BUT none of this stops me from enjoying all my weird cross-class characters. There is SOME method to the madness. A dagger-witch accesses those lovely passive mana regen and mana-on-kill passives much earlier than any other class, thus allowing her to spam dual strike to her heart's content. That is just one example, of course.

But skill wise, no one is unique in Path of Exile. No one is going to use a skill in a way outside its obvious boundaries. No one is going to look at a skill selection and wonder how far they can push it and in which directions. My dagger witch has dual strike; my staff-witch has sweep and leap slam. No caster in any other game would have this sort of thing at their disposal.

...Despite that, I still feel free within the quirky FFVII/X mixture going on. Even if it's an illusion of freedom as some have claimed, the feeling I get isn't. I can still justify a Duelist mage, a fencing Ranger or a two-handed sword wielding Templar. I really can, and that fits with my core desire in a game like this.

I'm not calling for class-exclusive skills. Heaven forbid. I'm merely pointing out that the complete absence thereof makes it much less likely that anyone will concoct a truly unique class-build that pushes the envelope of that class.

...Just a small observation.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Thanks for all the positive MAGIC !

Can´t more then agree on that. And that illusion is what needs to be reinforced to keep it working :)


In my own opinion , and as i stated in a suggestion somewhere.

I would like longer down the road that depending on what passives you take. You get a class title.

For example if you have most points on minion improvements. You get a title over you name as Necromancer.

If you go say. 50% Minion & 50% Spell dmg you get Warlock.

But it would only apply at lv 20 first.


I still think it would be a fun idea to give ppl the "class illusion" some feel they miss.

Also for many of us who love checking up different builds, it could be a fun little treasure hunt as you spec and stumble over titles.

Say that if you go for the passives that give you a tone of evasion, and duel-wield speed. You get the title Mad-Man.

And GGG could just add in about any type of combination you could think of to offer different titles.

1500+ passives in thousands of Title combinations if they would like.

You could even do as Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Pen & Paper. And add special attributes or even unique skills that you get for achieving that title.


We would then have an even deeper lv of customization on our builds. And it would also encourage players to try new builds/spec´s where they could stumble over a title no-one has found before.


Hell you could even arrange a little in-game thing where the ppl that find the titles first can have there names engraved at a special place in-game for all to see.

"Russell The Mad Man"

"CharanJaydemyr The Thinker"

"FlyButterFly The Protector"


etc etc.


Some could argue that it is only another form of Achievements, but here the titles would actually, just like D&D, showcase what type of build you have. And also improve it for you in various ways. And if you stick to it.

Give you a unique skill/passive at the end also if GGG would find that to be a valid option to try and strengthen peoples sens of Titles/classes after doing there builds.

"I am a True-Paladin" - Auras range doubles

"I am a Alchemist" - Gain 1 extra Potion slot

"I am a Donkey lord" - Doubles inventory




I think the passive is great , offers me allot of choice. But i wish there was something like this i just stated again to give it more depth then what i am use to.

"This is my talent tree in some form. I spec in it"



hmm

Did i just play Devils Advocate ? ^^

"

Drakenoog wrote:

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Thanks for all the positive MAGIC !

Can´t more then agree on that. And that illusion is what needs to be reinforced to keep it working :)


In my own opinion , and as i stated in a suggestion somewhere.

I would like longer down the road that depending on what passives you take. You get a class title.

For example if you have most points on minion improvements. You get a title over you name as Necromancer.

If you go say. 50% Minion & 50% Spell dmg you get Warlock.

But it would only apply at lv 20 first.


I still think it would be a fun idea to give ppl the "class illusion" some feel they miss.

Also for many of us who love checking up different builds, it could be a fun little treasure hunt as you spec and stumble over titles.

Say that if you go for the passives that give you a tone of evasion, and duel-wield speed. You get the title Mad-Man.

And GGG could just add in about any type of combination you could think of to offer different titles.

1500+ passives in thousands of Title combinations if they would like.

You could even do as Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Pen & Paper. And add special attributes or even unique skills that you get for achieving that title.


We would then have an even deeper lv of customization on our builds. And it would also encourage players to try new builds/spec´s where they could stumble over a title no-one has found before.


Hell you could even arrange a little in-game thing where the ppl that find the titles first can have there names engraved at a special place in-game for all to see.

"Russell The Mad Man"

"CharanJaydemyr The Thinker"

"FlyButterFly The Protector"


etc etc.


Some could argue that it is only another form of Achievements, but here the titles would actually, just like D&D, showcase what type of build you have. And also improve it for you in various ways. And if you stick to it.

Give you a unique skill/passive at the end also if GGG would find that to be a valid option to try and strengthen peoples sens of Titles/classes after doing there builds.

"I am a True-Paladin" - Auras range doubles

"I am a Alchemist" - Gain 1 extra Potion slot

"I am a Donkey lord" - Doubles inventory




I think the passive is great , offers me allot of choice. But i wish there was something like this i just stated again to give it more depth then what i am use to.

"This is my talent tree in some form. I spec in it"



hmm

Did i just play Devils Advocate ? ^^

I think this is a fantastic idea and will bring a lot of replay value.

"

PopekRAK wrote:

"

tacitus wrote:

Has anyone tried playing D1 on a Windows 7 or Vista machine? I am getting hankering to play it again (upon reading this thread) and I would like to know if it is just going to be too painful. (Plus I have to find my disk)

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/getting-diablo-1-working-on-windows-7-guide

Nice timing, posted yesterday lol :p

Thanks! Now I just have to find my disks.

you are a diamond supporter, woooow

"

SwedishTavern wrote:

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Thanks for all the positive MAGIC !

Can´t more then agree on that. And that illusion is what needs to be reinforced to keep it working :)


In my own opinion , and as i stated in a suggestion somewhere.

I would like longer down the road that depending on what passives you take. You get a class title.

For example if you have most points on minion improvements. You get a title over you name as Necromancer.

If you go say. 50% Minion & 50% Spell dmg you get Warlock.

its a great idea and sounds really fun...

the only problem i find with it is i think the whole no class system and everyone has access to all skills is most likely for pvp....

so you have no obvious idea who your about to pvp against... once your a known class everyone is gonna instantly know your spec therefor instantly know how to fight against you....

same with any class system you instantly know what kind of fight its going to be and it can get boring fast.

pvp when you have a lot less idea what the other person has up there sleave is a lot more entertaining for me...

by now aswell the vast majority of people know what a battlemage is... melleemancer etc... they know what classes are generally called.

i think the devs dont want to treat us as children and give us the choice to call our builds exactly what WE want....

although dont get me wrong the way you explained your system does sound a really nice touch and would be really fun... but it would remove all of the above for me

SwedishTavern, I apologise for not getting back to you about this sooner. I most embarrassingly assumed it was a call for achievements, and instinctively overlooked it. I'm very sorry.

This is a great idea, and one that I've also called for in other games that allow you to multi-spec your character. Stuff like Guild Wars 1: a N/W could have become a Grim Knight or a Meleemancer. Or perhaps titles based on which skills you used the most. Something like that. I even pondered if there could be some sort of bonus for each title, something appropriate to the skills chosen, the path selected. Not really necessary, though it does relate to another idea I saw around that suggested we gain a bonus for completing a 'cluster' of like nodes on the 'tree'.

EDIT: so did you. Good lord, I really need to pay attention to these things.

This title concept also addresses my concern above regarding class innovation and differentiation. If the game could 'read' which skills you use most, certainly some titles could arise from that. Obvious examples would be 'Pyromancer' and 'Necromancer', but there is definitely room for depth here.

In short, I'd really like to see this happen.

"

snelz wrote:

"

SwedishTavern wrote:

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Thanks for all the positive MAGIC !

Can´t more then agree on that. And that illusion is what needs to be reinforced to keep it working :)


In my own opinion , and as i stated in a suggestion somewhere.

I would like longer down the road that depending on what passives you take. You get a class title.

For example if you have most points on minion improvements. You get a title over you name as Necromancer.

If you go say. 50% Minion & 50% Spell dmg you get Warlock.

its a great idea and sounds really fun...

the only problem i find with it is i think the whole no class system and everyone has access to all skills is most likely for pvp....

so you have no obvious idea who your about to pvp against... once your a known class everyone is gonna instantly know your spec therefor instantly know how to fight against you....

same with any class system you instantly know what kind of fight its going to be and it can get boring fast.

pvp when you have a lot less idea what the other person has up there sleave is a lot more entertaining for me...

by now aswell the vast majority of people know what a battlemage is... melleemancer etc... they know what classes are generally called.

i think the devs dont want to treat us as children and give us the choice to call our builds exactly what WE want....

although dont get me wrong the way you explained your system does sound a really nice touch and would be really fun... but it would remove all of the above for me

Well how about just add the option that in PvP.

You cannot see titles ^^

Win win yes ? =)