Time Capsule from PoE Closed Beta -- a classic PoE vs D3 thread circa 2012

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

While the OP is entitled to his opinion, implying this is a successor to Diablo kind of odd. First of all, Diablo 1 and 2 we're by today's standards horribly made. Just because you had the initial challenge and over came it by finding gear doesn't mean Diablo 2 was all great. It was pretty terrible. You essentially spammed 1 skill the entire game. It was fine the first bit but even the critics say the charm faded objectively.

Hi and thanks for contributing. Please allow me to address your points.

Firstly, by today's standards, most games were horribly made. Some real classics. This stands for any medium, too. I wasn't really referring to the games as by today's standards, but the standards of their day. And both Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were considered, in their day, top tier games. I'm not sure if I need to argue that point any further.

As for 'spamming one skill', that's how you played it, maybe. Not how I played it. Don't blame a game for your decision not to be experimental or creative.

Which critics, please?

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

Diablo 2 had you pump points into other skills then for 20 levels you put all your points into one skill.

The stat design was terribly done. Unless you went for max block you went standard strength to charm + item to bug and wear your items. Rest was all life. If you didn't do that you couldn't compete in Players versus Player (which is the reason it has such longevity).

The game was not balanced and so leveling was crippled. Diablo 2 LoD was supposed to be the first of 2 expansions. A second expansion was planned with higher monster level so you could reach level 99 in a timely manner. However, it was cancelled.

Hang on, are we even talking about Path of Exile here? I hear there are plenty of boards on which the shortcomings of Diablo 2 are likely more appropriate as a conversation point.

I think the key point here is you're talking from a PvP perspective. That wasn't how a lot of people approached Diablo 1 or Diablo 2. I do appreciate your angle, however -- it seems a lot of people on this thread agree with mine, so it's refreshing to encounter someone who sees D1/D2 as less of an 'epic adventure' and more of a 'pvp' set-up. It's alien to me, really, and thus quite fascinating.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

What I see in Path of Exile is a lot of ambition and terrible execution. That passive skill tree you're glorifying is probably the worst thing I've seen ever. It's all just +10% damage. As much fun as that is for min-maxers, it just leads to cookie cutter builds... something your OP really hates.

Uhm, we'll overlook the hyperbole of 'it's all just +10% damage' because I don't even need to argue that; it's flat-out wrong. Unfortunately, you seem to develop your argument from there, so...uhm...yeah. No.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

The game isn't challenging. As much as you want it to be it isn't. Monsters require the same strategy. There's no innovation in monster design so it really is gather and nuke.

Just because there's no real innovation in monster design doesn't mean it can't be challenging. Maybe it's not challenging for you, in which case (and I'm fairly sure you will be doing this anyway) I suggest you play something else. I actually thought the fact that crabs had essentially two forms was quite innovative, especially when you combine that with some of the meaner boss attributes. 'Allies cannot die' is not something I've seen any boss in any other game possess as a bonus, while we're talking 'innovation'. You seem to be using a lot of 'absolute' language here. 'The worst' and 'there is no' -- really? Did you REALLY think about this post before hitting 'submit'?

As for 'gather and nuke', you've just betrayed the fact that you haven't tried many play-styles at all. Probably because you didn't need to. Which is, again, missing the point of this sort of game, with its multiple characters and multiple ways of playing them.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

Path of Exile doesn't raise the bar at all. It actually goes back in time and stays with the Diablo 2 bar. There's nothing new here. This is just an out dated beta that should have happened 10 years ago.

Better late than never -- or, as the Blizz folk put it, 'no one remembers if it's late, only if it's great.' Well, gee.

And yeah, it does go back in time in a way, but it does so with a firm eye on the present. It doesn't have 2002 graphics; it's using ideas gleaned from games both old and quite new. A lot of people like this mix of old and new. Sorry you're not one of them.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

Diablo 3 -- to a lot of posters dismay -- is promising. Sure, it has it's controversy IE runes unlocked at certain levels, but that's just a strategy to get people to stay until Inferno. Which is reasonable. And from World of Warcraft you can tell they've learned if people are given their skills they won't try them all.

The combat's much better. More fluid and looks more fun.

This entire thread is really about comparing an outdated beta to a AAA title that is clearly better. There's no discussion here. Objectively, Diablo 3 raises the bar and is leaps and bounds better than Path of Exile. It's probably not want to hear but coming May 15, 2012, it will be the truth.

And now we come to the crux of it. You really should have started there. You're talking about Diablo III and World of Warcraft in the same context. That right there is why you and I will never see eye-to-eye. Fair enough. Thank you for contributing again.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

By the way, Diablo was a copy of Dragon Slayer series.

Nihon Falcom's 'Dragon Slayer' series (which included the poorly-ported to the west Sorcerian; nice try, Sierra, I still loved it) has nothing in common with Diablo. To be frank, Falcom's OTHER series, Ys, lends itself more to Diablo if only because in Ys (at least until Ys SEVEN), you always played only one character; Sorcerian you controlled a party.

By the way, I'm a huge, huge fan of Falcom. I even flew to Japan once for a concert of the music from Ys and Legend of Heroes.

I'd like to say 'see you in-game sometime' but I don't think that's happening. So...uhm...enjoy whatever it is you do end up playing. :)

In this thread, people are championing passive skill trees that give +10% damage in a certain area.

We say monster innovation can be done well if the monster 2 shots you.

We say Diablo 3 is not really Diablo even though it will critically be much better than Path of Exile.

In all honesty, this is people asking for a vanilla server. You're going to get it, however, it won't flourish. It's not up to date. It's old. It's archaic. It's a fact.

People can defend it all they want. It's true. You know it. Everyone with any knowledge of the game knows it, however, it will be really hard to persuade someone who laid down $1,000 on the game before it even came out of Closed Beta. :/

I find it questionable that all it took to change your mind on Diablo 3 was the change to skill runes, but hey, in the end these are video games and we should all play what we find to be the most fun.

I'll end up playing both games. No reason not to when one's free.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

In this thread, people are championing passive skill trees that give +10% damage in a certain area.

We say monster innovation can be done well if the monster 2 shots you.

We say Diablo 3 is not really Diablo even though it will critically be much better than Path of Exile.

In all honesty, this is people asking for a vanilla server. You're going to get it, however, it won't flourish. It's not up to date. It's old. It's archaic. It's a fact.

People can defend it all they want. It's true. You know it. Everyone with any knowledge of the game knows it, however, it will be really hard to persuade someone who laid down $1,000 on the game before it even came out of Closed Beta. :/

You are severely underestimating the power of nostalgia, possibly because you don't have any yet.

Did you really think you could persuade me that easily? After all these pages? You provided me with another angle, which I've taken on board. I am particularly grateful for your very tight meshing of D3 and WoW. Although the graphics of Diablo 3 naturally reminded me of WoW, so did Starcraft 2 (really!) -- on the other hand, WoW to me was always just Warcraft 3 zoomed-in. But you're dead right. In a post-WoW world, Diablo 3 will rule. No one will argue that.

...It's just that some of us don't live in a post-WoW world. It wasn't compulsory; it didn't change everything for everyone.

There are some things that really don't need to be said, and you said quite a few of them. But none of them negate the potential success of this game for and as what it is.

...I'm glad beta keys are now much easier to obtain, because I think one was wasted on you.

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Valnen wrote:

I find it questionable that all it took to change your mind on Diablo 3 was the change to skill runes, but hey, in the end these are video games and we should all play what we find to be the most fun.

I'll end up playing both games. No reason not to when one's free.

Sorry, it really was that simple. To me, it was a massive, massive change that totally altered how I would play the game.

Like I said, I overlooked everything else until that point.

Be thankful you weren't one of my friends when patch 13 came out. My goodness did they get an ear-bashing. Most will still play it, a few 'I-told-you-so'd at me. None of them were at all surprised at my reaction, however.

Again, this thread is about a person who spent $1,000 on a game in closed beta who won't leave the bubble. I too am attached to my Skyrim on PS3 even though I spent money on that chugging piece of crap.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Sorry, it really was that simple. To me, it was a massive, massive change that totally altered how I would play the game.

Like I said, I overlooked everything else until that point.

Be thankful you weren't one of my friends when patch 13 came out. My goodness did they get an ear-bashing. Most will still play it, a few 'I-told-you-so'd at me. None of them were at all surprised at my reaction, however.

I think I can understand, when people play games for different reasons sometimes a small change to one person might be huge to someone else.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

Again, this thread is about a person who spent $1,000 on a game in closed beta who won't leave the bubble. I too am attached to my Skyrim on PS3 even though I spent money on that chugging piece of crap.

Oh dear. Did you miss the part where I said I spent a very long time on the D3 beta? Not liking where my favourite game series is headed and being very happy to find an alternative that to me feels more in the spirit of that series =/= not leaving 'the bubble.'

...yeah, I got Skyrim on ps3 too. Very stubbornly played that for a very long time despite also have it on PC -- prettier by far, modded beautifully. Go figure.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

Again, this thread is about a person who spent $1,000 on a game in closed beta who won't leave the bubble. I too am attached to my Skyrim on PS3 even though I spent money on that chugging piece of crap.

Oh dear. Did you miss the part where I said I spent a very long time on the D3 beta? Not liking where my favourite game series is headed and being very happy to find an alternative that to me feels more in the spirit of that series =/= not leaving 'the bubble.'

...yeah, I got Skyrim on ps3 too. Very stubbornly played that for a very long time despite also have it on PC -- prettier by far, modded beautifully. Go figure.

Your favorite series is progressing. It's not becoming stale. Diablo 3's beta is by far much more appealing and designed better than Diablo 2 ever was. We haven't even played the whole game and you're judging it. Complete ignorance on your part.

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Sketchbag111 wrote:

Again, this thread is about a person who spent $1,000 on a game in closed beta who won't leave the bubble. I too am attached to my Skyrim on PS3 even though I spent money on that chugging piece of crap.

Oh dear. Did you miss the part where I said I spent a very long time on the D3 beta? Not liking where my favourite game series is headed and being very happy to find an alternative that to me feels more in the spirit of that series =/= not leaving 'the bubble.'

...yeah, I got Skyrim on ps3 too. Very stubbornly played that for a very long time despite also have it on PC -- prettier by far, modded beautifully. Go figure.

Your favorite series is progressing. It's not becoming stale. Diablo 3's beta is by far much more appealing and designed better than Diablo 2 ever was. We haven't even played the whole game and you're judging it. Complete ignorance on your part.

I don't think anyone will dispute that the series is progressing. Many are dissatisfied with how it is progressing, however.