Straw poll: do you like the lab? [UPDATED W. RESULT]

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Saltygames wrote:

Yes, we are getting a few votes in, that im happy for. 144 votes as of now. I will update OP on friday.

and the amount of salt from grown indivuduals in this thread:

"WAAAH results not going my way, it will be pointless when 3.0 hits, its badly designed. WAAAAAAAAH"

I think we've hit triple worthless. In less than a week you've gone from "I hope this is useful", to "it's too hard to design a well made poll that would give unbiased answers", to "Look at how salty people are that it isn't going their way and not because they fucking predicted the result, no sir"

I must admit you kept your farce up longer than many of your anti lab peers would have. Seriously pathetic.

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The_Reporter wrote:

Even with a big showing from the contrarians, the labyrinth BS is still at a 60% disapproval rating.

Very close to being a tiny insignificant minority.

Because 150 odd votes represents the game community as a whole. And that anti lab people make up the active portion of the lab discussion by a long shot because of reasons discussed multiple times. Gee, its almost like the worthlessness of the poll was predicted...

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The_Reporter wrote:

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

Even with a big showing from the contrarians, the labyrinth BS is still at a 60% disapproval rating.

Very close to being a tiny insignificant minority.

Because 150 odd votes represents the game community as a whole. And that anti lab people make up the active portion of the lab discussion by a long shot because of reasons discussed multiple times. Gee, its almost like the worthlessness of the poll was predicted...

It's a poll sample. with more votes, the ratio will remain roughly the same.

Not really, the poll is posted to feedback and suggestions. Typically a good portion of the people that visit here are to give feedback and suggestions on something they don't like. In fact its much more common for someone to go out of there way to complain about something, then they are to praise or say anything positive. This is basically a fact. Think about the last time you complained about service and the last time you went out of your way to tell the manager that the worked did a good job.


A good portion of what decides the votes is location (which decides who is in the polling group), presentation, which may inherently present a bias one way or another.


Because OP posted in the feedback and suggestions his results were always going to be skewed, on reddit its not even likely publicly listed because they filter out strawpolls on the poe subreddit. I'd be interested in seeing a result of not only one presented in such a fashion to not have bias, but one that isn't in a location to be bias to start with.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

Even with a big showing from the contrarians, the labyrinth BS is still at a 60% disapproval rating.

Very close to being a tiny insignificant minority.

Because 150 odd votes represents the game community as a whole. And that anti lab people make up the active portion of the lab discussion by a long shot because of reasons discussed multiple times. Gee, its almost like the worthlessness of the poll was predicted...

It's a poll sample. with more votes, the ratio will remain roughly the same.

Except you don't know that because, color me shocked, 150 is a tiny ass sample that can no way be representative of the population as a whole. This is basic research sampling. I've had to make opinion polls, natural observation studies and worked in a research lab with hundreds of rats. This is kinda the shit you learn about in a psych major.

There are 15000 people who have reached at least 94 in softcore legacy alone. 150 votes is nowhere near accurate enough for poe as a whole. 15000 people alone would need 375 minimum sample size with a 95% confidence level and lets say a confidence interval of 5. And this ignores that OP posted this in another thread that has strong anti lab rhetoric in the fucking title, and again, that anti lab people are much much much more likely to comment or vote about the lab than anybody who is neutral or likes it unless forced to.

The people who voted they liked the lab in previous polls aren't bothering to vote in subsequent polls. The people who hate the lab will vote in every single poll they can.

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mark1030 wrote:

The people who voted they liked the lab in previous polls aren't bothering to vote in subsequent polls. The people who hate the lab will vote in every single poll they can.

Yup

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mark1030 wrote:

The people who voted they liked the lab in previous polls aren't bothering to vote in subsequent polls. The people who hate the lab will vote in every single poll they can.

Also as you previously asserted, Shovelcut demonstrated that these polls can't be trusted. :-) Here's the post where you were discussing it with Zrevnur.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

Nice word games. I don't know in what world you can think that saying "I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness." is not saying that you don't think shovelcut is trustworthy.

Remember the context == your own quote. You added Shovelcut. Which is only meaningful if Shovelcut is trustworthy. As I did not have sufficient knowledge about Shovelcut being trustworthy or not I pointed this out.
Considering that knowledge of trustworthiness is critical for believing a claim such as (example) "this is inherently rigged and I have proven it but I didnt do the rigging myself" it was also IMO relevant. Note that I do not know the exact claim.


Edit: technical fix

Just for completeness, here's the post that Zrevnur is referencing.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

There is a poll thread with lotsa votes: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1665217/page/1

I think Shovelcut has already demonstrated that any positive vote in that poll automatically gets countered with negative votes so it can hardly be considered a scientific poll.

No online poll like this is going to be "scientific". There may be people deliberately sabotaging any poll (in whatever direction) anyway.
(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1912655/page/3#p14559476

Referring to Marks statement, I do not recall Shovelcut proving/demonstrating anything of the sort. What I recall is that I was monitoring that poll off and on over the weeks and the numbers seemed to be trickling in as one would expect. Not as if someone was aggressively stuffing the ballot box. Now this doesn't prove someone wasn't stuffing the ballot box but if they were they were being careful and not obvious. I was in a discussion with Mark and Shovelcut, IIRC, about someone stuffing the ballot box. I asked how could someone do that since the polling place prevented multiple votes from the same IP. I was told by Mark or Shovelcut that it was easy. I insisted to know how. Then I was given a response that seemed a bit suspicious something like, "I'm not discussing this anymore." So I watched the poll closer and noted an obvious dump of many dozens of votes into just the "Love lab", which previously was a category not getting many votes. I then saw a much smaller surge of votes more on the dislike lab side. Perhaps what demonstration Mark was referring to though was he knew Shovelcut was stuffing the ballot box?

After that I don't think I ever mentioned the polls again, at least not as a reference, because I don't consider them reliable.

The poll I believe Shovelcut, Mark and I were discussing was this poll. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1639251

the laziest strawpoll i ve seen. Yes, or no? Where is the option: "I don't mind it coz it makes my character stronk as fuck"?