Straw poll: do you like the lab? [UPDATED W. RESULT]

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Saltygames wrote:

The thread is right there to see on the forums, and if you have read it you know very well it's far from only anti-lab rhetoric

You guys need to take a chill pill.

You are literally seeking out people who are more likely to add their anti lab views to a thread because it is an inherently anti lab thread by title alone. You point out that some people aren't anti lab in there. Again, who is more likely to go vote on something, somebody who actively dislikes it or somebody who thought they would add that they don't mind it in passing like many of the people who are okay with the lab are commenting in that thread. The number of times I have seen "I don't hate the thread, it could improve but it doesn't need to be drastically altered" in some form is typical of my waiter scenario. It would be the equivelent of having passable service, maybe a mishap, but you still tipped them a fair amount and forgot about it. No reason to fill out a compliment or complaint card.

And I will say it again, it takes like 5 minutes to make a less biased and fair polling question.

The reason I'm saying it's worthless is because it is. A simple yes no answer to a basic question means nothing for the development team. It has no information to back it up or how the results should be interpreted or if they even should take an interpretation away from the results outside of "x people like lab, x people don't like it. End of story." That's kind of what research design is for. You can't say more people like or dislike the lab because you don't establish how well your poll results represent the entire population of players versus cherry picked samples. It's just messy in every aspect and therefore worthless for interpretation.

But sure. Laugh it off because it's "hard and no matter how I phrase it someone will complain" no. That is what research design is for.

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Zrevnur wrote:

It is possible that you didnt do it deliberately. Some people do not use words in a "precise-akin-to-mathematics" manner. You may be one of them.

I am...

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Zrevnur wrote:

I did not call you "untrustworthy" == you are still misrepresenting me.

I am not...

I can only interpret what you've written, if you think that's shady so be it.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

It is possible that you didnt do it deliberately. Some people do not use words in a "precise-akin-to-mathematics" manner. You may be one of them.

I am...

Ok, never seen anybody admit it...

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

I did not call you "untrustworthy" == you are still misrepresenting me.

I am not...

I can only interpret what you've written, if you think that's shady so be it.

I dont think it is "right" to make an arbitrary interpretation and then imply it being true.
--
Due to me making "weak" statements (which only say as much as necessary for the context) people often read something into these "weak" statements which isnt there.

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Saltygames wrote:

I dont see an issue with the wording. I wanted to force a binary response for this poll. You can interpret it as a minor change is needed, or a larger one.

You don't see this as a problem? Asking for a binary response but making a poll that inherently requires interpretation?

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mark1030 wrote:

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Saltygames wrote:

I dont see an issue with the wording. I wanted to force a binary response for this poll. You can interpret it as a minor change is needed, or a larger one.

You don't see this as a problem? Asking for a binary response but making a poll that inherently requires interpretation?

Look, it's quite simple: either you think the lab needs a change or you don't. I'm not doing a multi answer form for all possible contingencies, and have it peer reviewed. If you want to do that, then do it. Otherwise stop wasting my time.

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Saltygames wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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Saltygames wrote:

I dont see an issue with the wording. I wanted to force a binary response for this poll. You can interpret it as a minor change is needed, or a larger one.

You don't see this as a problem? Asking for a binary response but making a poll that inherently requires interpretation?

Look, it's quite simple: either you think the lab needs a change or you don't. I'm not doing a multi answer form for all possible contingencies, and have it peer reviewed. If you want to do that, then do it. Otherwise stop wasting my time.

You're wasting your own time with such a skewed poll. Why not skew the results even more and make the two options:
Is the lab perfect? Yes or no.

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Saltygames wrote:

Look, it's quite simple: either you think the lab needs a change or you don't.

lol. this is a poll question?

first - WHATVER requires effort to get something will be voted 'i want it for free'

would i take free ascendancies? sure. do i think it would be good for a game? no way.

same with Masters. i hate this entire 'leveling system'. it is a chore and takes FAR MORE TIME than lab no matter how you spin it. Catarina missions are one of the worst BS ever invented.. same with 'open chest' assassinations.. but i do them because these are required to get crafting options

would i take them for free? sure. would that be good for the game? doubtful.

same with finding loot and killing bosses

would i take a blank lvl 100 character? sure. id even pay for it. why? because all this leveling bs is monotonous work and i would like to get these last 8-10 passives someday.

it can be repeated on and on - it is the same damn thing

if you ask anyone if he wants something requiring effort for free - there is a very small population to respond 'no, thank you'

lab is so hated because at one point GGG gave some people HOPE it will change. and as we all know - hope is a very, very strong mechanic. so people cling on to the notion that somehow they will get something for free. GGG did a solid mistake when they did not address Lab in one of their QA sessions with simply 'it is what it is - like it or leave it' but they played with 'no answer' option

it backfired, gave hope to the crowd. and crowd + hope is a very very stubborn beast

i bet we will see countless pointless polls when 4.0 is released still.. and the same people will claim that they will quit someday somehow while wasting countless hours 'fighting' for a stuff noone at GGG gives a damn

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sidtherat wrote:

i bet we will see countless pointless polls when 4.0 is released still.. and the same people will claim that they will quit someday somehow while wasting countless hours 'fighting' for a stuff noone at GGG gives a damn

haha so fucking true

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Saltygames wrote:

Haha, these things are hard. I think no matter how I phrase the question Someone will complain.

I dont see an issue with the wording. I wanted to force a binary response for this poll. You can interpret it as a minor change is needed, or a larger one. Determining that will be for a later poll, for someone else to do.

119 votes now, and not at all only 'no' answers as some would claim

Guess I am that someone in this wording, lol. Anyway, I forgot to say nice poll, I was a bit curious about the results anyway.

Yes, we are getting a few votes in, that im happy for. 144 votes as of now. I will update OP on friday.

and the amount of salt from grown indivuduals in this thread:

"WAAAH results not going my way, it will be pointless when 3.0 hits, its badly designed. WAAAAAAAAH"