Straw poll: do you like the lab? [UPDATED W. RESULT]

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Zrevnur wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

There is a poll thread with lotsa votes: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1665217/page/1

I think Shovelcut has already demonstrated that any positive vote in that poll automatically gets countered with negative votes so it can hardly be considered a scientific poll.

No online poll like this is going to be "scientific". There may be people deliberately sabotaging any poll (in whatever direction) anyway.
(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)

Point out one shady thing I've done anywhere here, I dare you. Bet you can't.

I'm willing to bet that you've labeled me so simply because I've got an opposing opinion of the laby.

3 years in and I've nonstop helped new players on the forums or in-game. I've helped run 4 massive guilds aimed at teaching/helping new players and have never hesitated to help those who need help, be it handing out free gear/free master crafting/laby runs/boss kills/a1n-a4m runs you name it and never asked for any tips or compensation of any kind. You can often find me in global 3 sc temp leagues as one of the handful of people that actually answer questions and not troll. I've never even taken other players drops when they accidentally flipped them or needed to vend to grab their loot. lol

The shadiest thing I've done is multi-vote in that poll you linked to prove that it was rigged. And I was even upfront about that. Believe me or not, it was rigged from the very beginning and that's a fact.

So how exactly am I untrustworthy? And what the fuck have you done?

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

I think Shovelcut has already demonstrated that any positive vote in that poll automatically gets countered with negative votes so it can hardly be considered a scientific poll.

No online poll like this is going to be "scientific". There may be people deliberately sabotaging any poll (in whatever direction) anyway.
(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)

Point out one shady thing I've done anywhere here, I dare you. Bet you can't.

I'm willing to bet that you've labeled me so simply because I've got an opposing opinion of the laby.

3 years in and I've nonstop helped new players on the forums or in-game. I've helped run 4 massive guilds aimed at teaching/helping new players and have never hesitated to help those who need help, be it handing out free gear/free master crafting/laby runs/boss kills/a1n-a4m runs you name it and never asked for any tips or compensation of any kind. You can often find me in global 3 sc temp leagues as one of the handful of people that actually answer questions and not troll. I've never even taken other players drops when they accidentally flipped them or needed to vend to grab their loot. lol

The shadiest thing I've done is multi-vote in that poll you linked to prove that it was rigged. And I was even upfront about that. Believe me or not, it was rigged from the very beginning and that's a fact.

So how exactly am I untrustworthy? And what the fuck have you done?

Ok I will show you one shady thing you have done: You misrepresented (in exactly the quoted post) me. See the bolded part. I did not call you 'untrustworthy'. I wrote what I wrote - you can read it above. I did not write nor imply 'you are untrustworthy' or anything similar. Nor did I intend to. I dont know if you are or not but your post here certainly doesnt give me a good impression.
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And to clarify why I wrote the "(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)": It was to express that adding your name to the 'demonstrated' claim does not make it more believable to me. I simply dont associate your name with 'I trust you' or anyting similar. Which is what I wrote.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Ok I will show you one shady thing you have done: You misrepresented (in exactly the quoted post) me. See the bolded part. I did not call you 'untrustworthy'. I wrote what I wrote - you can read it above. I did not write nor imply 'you are untrustworthy' or anything similar. Nor did I intend to. I dont know if you are or not but your post here certainly doesnt give me a good impression.
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And to clarify why I wrote the "(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)": It was to express that adding your name to the 'demonstrated' claim does not make it more believable to me. I simply dont associate your name with 'I trust you' or anyting similar. Which is what I wrote.

It's an honest response to your statement. You're publicly putting my name and untrustworthy in the same sentence, I don't see how I'm being shady in my response in any way.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Ok I will show you one shady thing you have done: You misrepresented (in exactly the quoted post) me. See the bolded part. I did not call you 'untrustworthy'. I wrote what I wrote - you can read it above. I did not write nor imply 'you are untrustworthy' or anything similar. Nor did I intend to. I dont know if you are or not but your post here certainly doesnt give me a good impression.
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And to clarify why I wrote the "(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)": It was to express that adding your name to the 'demonstrated' claim does not make it more believable to me. I simply dont associate your name with 'I trust you' or anyting similar. Which is what I wrote.

It's an honest response to your statement. You're publicly putting my name and untrustworthy in the same sentence, I don't see how I'm being shady in my response in any way.

You have apparently repeated the same mistake.

Zrevnur did NOT put untrustworthy and your name in the same sentence! This is in direct contradiction of what you said.

Not associating trustworthiness with something or someone does not mean that that thing or person is considered untrustworthy.

Before you get all defensive and start attacking me. Please note that you're not being attacked here.

Um, Shovelcut is one one of the MOST trustworthy people on here. Also nice; trying to help new players. Shady? No. That word does not come to mind.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Ok I will show you one shady thing you have done: You misrepresented (in exactly the quoted post) me. See the bolded part. I did not call you 'untrustworthy'. I wrote what I wrote - you can read it above. I did not write nor imply 'you are untrustworthy' or anything similar. Nor did I intend to. I dont know if you are or not but your post here certainly doesnt give me a good impression.
--
And to clarify why I wrote the "(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)": It was to express that adding your name to the 'demonstrated' claim does not make it more believable to me. I simply dont associate your name with 'I trust you' or anyting similar. Which is what I wrote.

It's an honest response to your statement. You're publicly putting my name and untrustworthy in the same sentence, I don't see how I'm being shady in my response in any way.

It is possible that you didnt do it deliberately. Some people do not use words in a "precise-akin-to-mathematics" manner. You may be one of them.

I did not call you "untrustworthy" == you are still misrepresenting me. Another attempt: This is not an attempt at defining the words/phrases but rather an attempt to demonstrate the relevant difference.

"You are untrustworthy.": I know that you cheat.

"I dont associate you with trustworthiness.": I have seen no (sufficient) evidence for trusting you.

Nice word games. I don't know in what world you can think that saying "I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness." is not saying that you don't think shovelcut is trustworthy.

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mark1030 wrote:

Nice word games. I don't know in what world you can think that saying "I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness." is not saying that you don't think shovelcut is trustworthy.

Remember the context == your own quote. You added Shovelcut. Which is only meaningful if Shovelcut is trustworthy. As I did not have sufficient knowledge about Shovelcut being trustworthy or not I pointed this out.
Considering that knowledge of trustworthiness is critical for believing a claim such as (example) "this is inherently rigged and I have proven it but I didnt do the rigging myself" it was also IMO relevant. Note that I do not know the exact claim.


Edit: technical fix

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Zrevnur wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

Nice word games. I don't know in what world you can think that saying "I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness." is not saying that you don't think shovelcut is trustworthy.

Remember the context == your own quote. You added Shovelcut. Which is only meaningful if Shovelcut is trustworthy. As I did not have sufficient knowledge about Shovelcut being trustworthy or not I pointed this out.
Considering that knowledge of trustworthiness is critical for believing a claim such as (example) "this is inherently rigged and I have proven it but I didnt do the rigging myself" it was also IMO relevant. Note that I do not know the exact claim.


Edit: technical fix

Just for completeness, here's the post that Zrevnur is referencing.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

There is a poll thread with lotsa votes: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1665217/page/1

I think Shovelcut has already demonstrated that any positive vote in that poll automatically gets countered with negative votes so it can hardly be considered a scientific poll.

No online poll like this is going to be "scientific". There may be people deliberately sabotaging any poll (in whatever direction) anyway.
(And I dont associate 'Shovelcut' with trustworthiness.)

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1912655/page/3#p14559476

Referring to Marks statement, I do not recall Shovelcut proving/demonstrating anything of the sort. What I recall is that I was monitoring that poll off and on over the weeks and the numbers seemed to be trickling in as one would expect. Not as if someone was aggressively stuffing the ballot box. Now this doesn't prove someone wasn't stuffing the ballot box but if they were they were being careful and not obvious. I was in a discussion with Mark and Shovelcut, IIRC, about someone stuffing the ballot box. I asked how could someone do that since the polling place prevented multiple votes from the same IP. I was told by Mark or Shovelcut that it was easy. I insisted to know how. Then I was given a response that seemed a bit suspicious something like, "I'm not discussing this anymore." So I watched the poll closer and noted an obvious dump of many dozens of votes into just the "Love lab", which previously was a category not getting many votes. I then saw a much smaller surge of votes more on the dislike lab side. Perhaps what demonstration Mark was referring to though was he knew Shovelcut was stuffing the ballot box?

After that I don't think I ever mentioned the polls again, at least not as a reference, because I don't consider them reliable.

edit: the poll I believe Shovelcut, Mark and I were discussing was this poll. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1639251