Change % damage from traps to flat damage in lab already.

"

MrTremere wrote:

So your issue is with the labyrinth taking ES into account, not it dealing damage proportional to the pool it takes into account, right?

Both. The fact that adding es in some cases can make it worse, and the fact that adding more flat life doesn't make a difference, is silly. Example: I have 1000 life and 10% regen. traps do 20% ehp dps. Ehp will be reduced to 0 in 10 sec. Now if I get twice as much life, 2000. It will still be reduced to 0 in 10 sec. If I add 1k more es, (assuming current 60% es effect for traps calc, while it was 100% back when ascendancy came out WTF) it will plow through es with dps of 200 + 120 in aprox 3 sec, and then through life with 320 dps with 100 regen in less than 5 sec.

1k life 10% regen = die in 10sec
986679679k life 10% regen = die in 10 sec
1k life 10% regen + 1k ES = die in less than 8 sec (which is still better than it used to be, 5 sec.)

does that seem ok to anyone?

I'm not a designer of this game so can't tell what really is the solution here, but voiding other defence types for mandatory content seems wrong to me - and declining hc playerbase seems to agree.

Ideally, I'd like to see traps take into account ALL primary defence types, es along with armour and eva. Not actually adding ES worse for it, as it is now.

/edit: when I saw the preview for ascendancy for the first time I remember I thought, holy **** eva is gonna be OP for that. Because you know... traps... characters EVASION... Turned out eva didn't even help at all since it was mostly degen without a hit. So no, it's not a matter of ES exclusively for sure.

@Razis

Just going to ignore my post because you can't counter it?

Terrible idea whole point is miss the traps so some skill besides amove is in game. If you still want to play amove just play juggs with like 20% life regen and close your eyes to victory.

Real HC would be one hit one kill TBH. Or do you think a 40,000 kilo blade dropping on your head is survivable?

"

goetzjam wrote:

@Razis

Just going to ignore my post because you can't counter it?

no, because I agree with some of your points while some are off topic. Fine, if it's important to you:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Cutting off what I said. I said you can use life pots, as a low life build that is a disadvantage of your build naturally is you can't use them.

misunderstanding, I thought you were saying I should use life pots in a low-life so I pointed out that it would be silly. agreed, though discussing low life is pointless since it's an extreme case. I brought it up because someone said to name one build that deosn't work for lab.

"

goetzjam wrote:

What is stopping you from not reserving as much or any life while you navigate thru the lab, if you are SRS you will suffer what some DPS loss? Then you can reserve the life in the room before. Its like you expect to do nothing differently in the lab.

absolutely, should have turned off the auras. discussing low life again, pointless because the case is extreme. Even with auras off the defences against traps are equivalent to a hybrid build, which is also terrible for lab (check above for math with 60% es taken into account)

"

goetzjam wrote:

When atziri came out do you think people just fought here and did nothing different, now people are so OP you just 1 shot her before she does anything, nullifying the challenge completely.

don't see how that relates to the fact that defences other than regen are useless in the lab.

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goetzjam wrote:

Large ES pool does matter it does proportionally less damage to ES then it does to life. You have ES recharge and can have ES regen if you really want.

If it is hybrid, it makes it worse. Again, math above. If pure CI - yes you can build with zealoth's, my point is you HAVE to, not that you can.

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goetzjam wrote:

The degrading at the same speed makes the challenge somewhat equal, you have the same time to react and either get to a safe spot or stop taking damage to either recharge, regen or use pots (again i know you are low life blah blah)

bringing up pots again that we already established wont work for ci, yes, I know, you know. Bringing up regen again - my point exactly, thats the only thing what works.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The reason why almost no defenses work against traps IS BECAUSE YOU CAN AND SHOULD AVOID THEM COMPLETELY.

Take a screen shot, record a video and show me sets of traps which you couldn't avoid taking damage, i'm 99.99% sure every single set ive seen has either safe places or ways to avoid taking damage.

well I died in lab once, and it was completely unavoidable. You're gonna have to take my word for it. If I had regen or pots, the ONLY two things that can possibly make a difference (my point) then yes, I might have survived.

We're still missing the main thing here. Main thing is that people ragequit hc. You're a hc player yourself I think so you should be concerned yourself. The reason they quit is because of the lab. It's arcade, it doesn't care about the ehp life pool or defences. That's why people quit. I'd like them to stay. You should like them to stay too if you wanna see a future hc league with a economy that's healthy. Only way to get em back is to change the way traps work. We're not discussing if it's enjoyable for you or me to run lab in hc, not discussing if you can avoid them always or not always. The trap % based dps does not belong to a game with established complex defence mechanisms and crazy build diversity. What we get is mandatory content that has to be completed by everyone, after they build and theorycraft, then play a mostly consistent game. You can't just make people build around a set of rules, then halfway through throw out this set of rules, BECAUSE IT MAKES THE RULES MEANINGLESS.

It might be fun in sc, but in hc it's a dealbreaker, and you can see that in declining hc player base. For the record, I'd personally be fine if lab stayed the way it is now. I can work around it. But people in hc hate it and most of em are not even here to discuss it because they've quit already. They obviously hate it for a good reason too, as stated mutiple times in posts above. Look at the math in the post above and tell me it's ok for a complex game like PoE to have mandatory content that works that way.

"

Timewar9 wrote:

Spoiler

Good to see you've still got another half of the passive tree to check out. Gotta love that fresh feeling of exploring something new.

"

I brought it up because someone said to name one build that deosn't work for lab.

But it does work, even if u have to make creative adjustments.

"

absolutely, should have turned off the auras. discussing low life again, pointless because the case is extreme. Even with auras off the defences against traps are equivalent to a hybrid build, which is also terrible for lab (check above for math with 60% es taken into account)

ES recharges and life can be healed with pots or regen. Hybrid in general is fine, yes it takes more then just pure es or pure life, but it doesnt prevent people from doing the lab.

"

If it is hybrid, it makes it worse. Again, math above. If pure CI - yes you can build with zealoth's, my point is you HAVE to, not that you can.

YOU DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT NEED LIFE REGEN TO DO THE LAB. My character is life based and has VP and farmed uber lab for the challenge.

Life can passively regen out of combat, assuming you dont have VP. Life can be healed with pots. Es will recharge outside of combat or damage.

So please tell me why you think u need regen?

"

bringing up pots again that we already established wont work for ci, yes, I know, you know. Bringing up regen again - my point exactly, thats the only thing what works.

Recharge is not regen, recharge happens on ALL ES characters and requires no special investment. Just stop taking damage and you recharge up super fast.

"

well I died in lab once, and it was completely unavoidable. You're gonna have to take my word for it. If I had regen or pots, the ONLY two things that can possibly make a difference (my point) then yes, I might have survived.

I won't take your word for it because you are 100% wrong. Is this a life based build, if so you should have flask charges to help with the fuckup if you are going to play in such a way to not avoid the traps. If you are ES get yourself to safe spots and recharge.

"

We're still missing the main thing here. Main thing is that people ragequit hc. You're a hc player yourself I think so you should be concerned yourself. The reason they quit is because of the lab.

I'm not playing HC this league, but have since before 2.0. Then rage quit the game whenever any challenge is presented. The fact of the matter is if you are out of pots and fucked up severely then your run is done and you just have to reset. Either alt+f4, portal out or disconnect. You fucked up and the design of the lab punished you for the lack of planning and poor positioning.

Out of all the complaints listed about the lab, very few are complains saying they RQ hardcore because of it. Those are players that fundamentally can't wrap their heads around the lab or refuse to do anything different to plan for the challenge.

"

It's arcade, it doesn't care about the ehp life pool or defences. That's why people quit. I'd like them to stay. You should like them to stay too if you wanna see a future hc league with a economy that's healthy. Only way to get em back is to change the way traps work. We're not discussing if it's enjoyable for you or me to run lab in hc, not discussing if you can avoid them always or not always. The trap % based dps does not belong to a game with established complex defence mechanisms and crazy build diversity. What we get is mandatory content that has to be completed by everyone, after they build and theorycraft, then play a mostly consistent game. You can't just make people build around a set of rules, then halfway through throw out this set of rules, BECAUSE IT MAKES THE RULES MEANINGLESS.

Rofl, that would be the case if the content wasn't balanced around a specific set of plannable challenges, which is 99.99% achieveable by all builds with proper planning. If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

"

It might be fun in sc, but in hc it's a dealbreaker, and you can see that in declining hc player base. For the record, I'd personally be fine if lab stayed the way it is now. I can work around it. But people in hc hate it and most of em are not even here to discuss it because they've quit already. They obviously hate it for a good reason too, as stated mutiple times in posts above. Look at the math in the post above and tell me it's ok for a complex game like PoE to have mandatory content that works that way.

Its the same exact content in SC as it is in HC, the only difference is 1 death vs having to reset the run and try again. People still have to compete it in 1 run to ascend, people have to navigate thru the same series of traps. Its identical. It is fine to have content designed for you to not play like a retard. Use the skills in the game, the items in the game and that brain that you have and you can 100% do the challenge.

Your whole flat damage argument is shit, it just punishes builds that build squishier and would punish your low life build far more then the traps currently do. But its ok I don't think you realize that.

100% agree with OP. I'll add that evasion and armor should work with traps(all traps).

From a player who plays HC since closed beta and uninstalled game since Prophecy announcement(more lab).

"

goetzjam wrote:

Your whole flat damage argument is shit, it just punishes builds that build squishier and would punish your low life build far more then the traps currently do. But its ok I don't think you realize that.

bro I laid out the math for you a few posts back and you just said that flat damage would punish a low life build more than % from total ehp, while the low life is the single most vulnerable build you can possibly make for that type of mechanic. It's ridiculous, seriously. I don't know what makes you defend that abysmal design choice so furiously in an game like PoE, but you're in the wrong here my friend. Not everything in PoE is perfect, you know, most people realized it and quit the hc leagues that we both ******* play. Do you want to have a healthy playerbase in the game that you're clearly a fanboy of or not? Answer yourself that.

"

goetzjam wrote:

I'm not playing HC this league, but have since before 2.0. Then rage quit the game whenever any challenge is presented.

... ok... so you're not really a hc player. That explains why you don't care about hc pop and why you think traps are fine the way they are though, which is good because you got me really confused there for a second.

"

sucemab wrote:

100% agree with OP. I'll add that evasion and armor should work with traps(all traps).

From a player who plays HC since closed beta and uninstalled game since Prophecy announcement(more lab).

Thank you. See? I'm talking about people like this guy.

Hc pop is hurt because of the lab, it's a fact alright. I'm fine with the damn traps ok, I'm not fine with the fact that general hc population hates it and is leaving the game. I just want dudes like him back in the hc leagues. That being said, % trap dps is... I went over this already. It's stupid and I told you why and I laid out the math, and people like him are not quitting for no reason you see.

So please. Do something about the lab GGG.