Haven't really ever commented on lab, but I hate it.

"

mynameisonlyforthegods wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Zzz derailing contextual posts. Its almost as if you dont do this every single time you try to argue (you do and youve been called out on it before).

no fucks given matey. i care about only one single thing, and that's logic. if you manage to stuff some logic into your arguments, we can have a nice conversation. your arguments don't have the slightest bit of logic though, so until you fix that you're not eligible of having an opinion on the matter of labyrinth.

learn logic or gtfo.

Learn to logic, says the guy listing impossibilities as "logical" arguments. Your clear lack of understanding of the meaning of core is funny, its very funny how you think its a "logical" argument to compare an impossibility.

Its a fact that gear is a core element to the game, you cannot progress without it. You cannot go through every act of the game, including maps with no gear or points allocated. The core design of the game makes that apparent.

What ISNT a core game design mechanic is picking an Ascendancy class or using Masters. Theyre entirely optional, non-core content, that will not affect whether or not you complete a core quest or the core feature of endgame being maps.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Learn to logic, says the guy listing impossibilities as "logical" arguments. Your clear lack of understanding of the meaning of core is funny, its very funny how you think its a "logical" argument to compare an impossibility.

Its a fact that gear is a core element to the game, you cannot progress without it. You cannot go through every act of the game, including maps with no gear or points allocated. The core design of the game makes that apparent.

What ISNT a core game design mechanic is picking an Ascendancy class or using Masters. Theyre entirely optional, non-core content, that will not affect whether or not you complete a core quest or the core feature of endgame being maps.

now you're just pulling random divisions out of your ass on what is and what isn't mandatory core content. that is what we call an OPINION, kids, not a fact in any meaningful use of the word.

you're stating your opinion based on poe being a singleplayer game. it's not. this alone makes the point your trying to bring up, false.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Lol yes i did, go back through your spammmy labyrinth hate posts with me and Goetz and you completely ignored me debunking your usage of the pod cast, your "proof" was nothing more than contextual cherry picked words from the podcast. You took a snip of what was actually said and tried to use it as evidence when the entire statement made was completely different.

You must be confusing me with someone else but, you're still completely and totally incorrect.

"

mynameisonlyforthegods wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Learn to logic, says the guy listing impossibilities as "logical" arguments. Your clear lack of understanding of the meaning of core is funny, its very funny how you think its a "logical" argument to compare an impossibility.

Its a fact that gear is a core element to the game, you cannot progress without it. You cannot go through every act of the game, including maps with no gear or points allocated. The core design of the game makes that apparent.

What ISNT a core game design mechanic is picking an Ascendancy class or using Masters. Theyre entirely optional, non-core content, that will not affect whether or not you complete a core quest or the core feature of endgame being maps.

now you're just pulling random divisions out of your ass on what is and what isn't mandatory core content. that is what we call an OPINION, kids, not a fact in any meaningful use of the word.

you're stating your opinion based on poe being a singleplayer game. it's not. this alone makes the point your trying to bring up, false.

I like the part where you cant argue against it because its entirely logical and you know im right, so you resort to the "its an ass pull" reply.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/core

Ill link the definition for you just like i did for the other guy. lol.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Its a fact that gear is a core element to the game, you cannot progress without it. You cannot go through every act of the game, including maps with no gear or points allocated. The core design of the game makes that apparent.

Back in the original Diablo there were Beyond Naked Mages who were only allowed to wear cursed gear (and in fact were required to equip any cursed gear they found, unless it was better than what they were already wearing). Because of how spells worked, BNMs could progress through the whole game. Does that mean items weren't a core part of the original Diablo?

I don't know how far people can or do push things in PoE. I dare say you can get to maps just using white items, painful and slow though it may become. Does that mean magic items aren't a core part of PoE?

As you say, it's the game design that makes it apparent what the core parts of the game are, and the Ascendancy Classes are clearly designed to be a core part of character development and customization.

I like the lab, it's a nice way to break the "kill the whole screen with one click" meta and you can't really overlevel it.

But I don't get why there is the gear/build check izaro. He undermines the whole scaling idea, questionable design imo. He is the reason I have to overlevel anyway with most builds and so I don't get XP there and enemies are just potion fillers.

"

ShaUrley wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Its a fact that gear is a core element to the game, you cannot progress without it. You cannot go through every act of the game, including maps with no gear or points allocated. The core design of the game makes that apparent.

Back in the original Diablo there were Beyond Naked Mages who were only allowed to wear cursed gear (and in fact were required to equip any cursed gear they found, unless it was better than what they were already wearing). Because of how spells worked, BNMs could progress through the whole game. Does that mean items weren't a core part of the original Diablo?

I don't know how far people can or do push things in PoE. I dare say you can get to maps just using white items, painful and slow though it may become. Does that mean magic items aren't a core part of PoE?

As you say, it's the game design that makes it apparent what the core parts of the game are, and the Ascendancy Classes are clearly designed to be a core part of character development and customization.

You realize you just answered that question yourself. The game design itself allowed for them to do that, it was entirely intentional and the game was balanced around it existing.

ASCENDANCY CLASSES ARE NOT CORE TO THE GAME. LIST ONE PART OF THE GAME YOU CANNOT COMPLETE WITH A CHARACTER THAT DOES NOT HAVE AN ASCENDANCY. YOU CANT BECAUSE THERE ISNT ONE.

Are you going to sit here and say Masters are core too ? People did the exact same shit with the Masters when they came out as theyre doing right now with the Ascendancy points, saying its core content that is required (It isnt and that died down over time because they knew it was exactly that, optional content).

Can you get around on blue items ? Yes.



Infact one of the most used builds in a past league was using this with Searing Bond and wearing blue items to progress.

White items ? No. The games core design doesnt allow for it, hints how damage works with resistence for example. Gearing is core because you cannot progress without it. You guys are completely ignoring what is and isnt actually factually optional and what is actually core to the game.

"

Sa_Re wrote:

I like the lab, it's a nice way to break the "kill the whole screen with one click" meta and you can't really overlevel it.

But I don't get why there is the gear/build check izaro. He undermines the whole scaling idea, questionable design imo. He is the reason I have to overlevel anyway with most builds and so I don't get XP there and enemies are just potion fillers.

Hes added after malachai soo its a bit expected imo.

Izaro isnt actually a gear/build check, the only time Izaro is a gear and build check is if you plan to run him with his mods up, other wise if you pay attention to the mechanics you can complete him with ease. I think its fine that it is gear/build dependent on the modded version, after all, its like an Uber, Uber version of the normal fight when you do.

The lowest level character ive done Izaro on was like a 66 Slayer last league, has no issues with Merciless even underleveled and playing one of the worst Ascendancy classes in the game in a new league with no gear.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

"

ShaUrley wrote:

Back in the original Diablo there were Beyond Naked Mages who were only allowed to wear cursed gear (and in fact were required to equip any cursed gear they found, unless it was better than what they were already wearing). Because of how spells worked, BNMs could progress through the whole game. Does that mean items weren't a core part of the original Diablo?

You realize you just answered that question yourself. The game design itself allowed for them to do that, it was entirely intentional and the game was balanced around it existing.

Actually, spells were highly unbalanced in the original Diablo and BNMs were an entirely unintended consequence.

"

Can you get around on blue items ? Yes.

Infact one of the most used builds in a past league was using this with Searing Bond and wearing blue items to progress.

Well, using a unique item doesn't count. ;) And that's also a character who's using blue items to be strong rather than as a limit it's power. But no question that one can get by using only blue items.

"

White items ? No. The games core design doesnt allow for it.

Maybe, or maybe not. It might be surprising what's possible with enough ingenuity and patience.

"

ShaUrley wrote:

Maybe, or maybe not. It might be surprising what's possible with enough ingenuity and patience.

The only other sources of elemental resistances would be :
- the tree
- flasks

So in merc, some encounter clearly being designed around 75% resistance, that would mean at most 85% from flask temporarily + needs 50% from the tree.
and that would be 4 slot used to to get insta-gibbed by any higher level elemental monsters, and you could not purge debuffs ( = curses ) on top of that because the flasks would be white.

So even with min-maxing around flask and resistances from the tree ... one curse and it's rip.

I don't quite see how yo go through mec crema piety like this.
But since there would be no dps to have 100% uptime on the flasks, even normal crema Piety would destroy a white-only items character I think :p.
Of course, maybe there would be the possibility to caustic arrow -> die -> come back -> repeat but .... I don't think that we should consider such a cycle good enough.

But that would be interesting to try .... if someone feels like it lol.

GGG, need a white items only 3 hours race one day, please !