Haven't really ever commented on lab, but I hate it.

They already did when they launched Prophecy.

Read the 2.3.0 patch notes:

Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.

Feels good to get the points after clearing labs but the process is annoying. But then going through same content 3x time over 3 difficulties is frustrating too.. lol

I run labs just for points - then out.

For some of my chars the Asc points saved me from traveling too far from my starting area to get desired skills/effects. 40 to 50 minutes of Mario style game play ( trials + lab ) saves several hours of lake farming :)

"

catalinc wrote:

I think ascendancy points are part of the core game even if they dont seem to meet tin_foil_hat's criteria.

The moment GGG increased difficulty because of ascendancy is the moment when they became part of the core game.

I've already asked the same question in another thread (after reading the same things about "shit was specifically changed because of the asc.classes); and, no wonder, there was no answers. ^_^
So.

What exactly was "changed because of the ASC. implementing"? Who? Where?
PLEASE, post a quote from patch-note(s) which says something like:
"you can't now kill Dominus\Maligaro\T15 map boss without previously intimidating him with the help of the "First to Strike - Last to Fall" Champion ascendancy passive"
or anything similar.

Power creep is power creep, which is inevitable.

BUT, note, they said "rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills". It's just the monsters which were added.

I don't see any "we buffed ALL monster's HP & damage by 400%, FY" lines.

And it still does not require you to play a specific ascendancy class (or any asc.class) to kill those "new" monsters (mere monsters, unique enemies and bosses weren't touched) or simply progress in game.
Most people even run norm.laby. after they start running maps. Which means what? Yeah, that you still can play without ascending "level-to-level" 3 times in every difficulty, i.e. "it's not that necessary".

P.S.

"

miljan wrote:

It was multiple times stated by GGG that ascendancy points are core part of the game, and that they will be balancing the game around you having them (as it already started with this league).

"Balancing the game with asc.skills in mind" and "requiring specific asc.passive to kill boss X" are two very different things.

So I guess it would just completely ruin tinfoil hats gaming experience if there were other options introduced to ascend rather than just the lab.

At least we have one persons softcore single player view of how the game must be played and ascendancy acquired.

At least out of the entire thread he is the only one that can't express his view points without being a complete jerk.

"

catalinc wrote:

They already did when they launched Prophecy.

Read the 2.3.0 patch notes:

Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.

[listens to the silence... which is the only reply that TFH can muster]

Ahhhh... being right never felt so good.

"

HarukaTeno wrote:

"Balancing the game with asc.skills in mind" and "requiring specific asc.passive to kill boss X" are two very different things.

They are, but that type of example doesnt matter in the context of my post and is this a core part or not. Because the fact still stand that they are balancing the game around you having those points, and that it is a core part of the game as said by developer them selves. Do you need a specific ascendancy class to beat a boss or not doesn't change that fact, as the game balance as a whole will be around the points, and this are first steps in that direction.

^no doubt.

ALL future balancing will be made around the assumption that the playerbase has as a matter of course, utilized ascendancy points.

"

Xtorma wrote:

I do not have fun running the lab.

I run the lab because I have to.

"

catalinc wrote:

I think ascendancy points are part of the core game even if they dont seem to meet tin_foil_hat's criteria.

The moment GGG increased difficulty because of ascendancy is the moment when they became part of the core game.

They were made a core part of the game immediately after they became available. This is what Chris Wilson has said. The reason is simple. PoE is an RPG where the core of the game is building characters. Any change in that area is a change to the core part of the game. They are no more optional than is using all of your passive skill points. Trying to argue that they are optional because you can complete all the content without them is no more relevant/meaningful than saying that using unique or rare helmets is optional. While it may be true, it is not relevant or meaningful. From that point of view practically everything in the game is optional.

The moment when GGG increases the difficulty of the game because of ascendancy is the moment that they become more critical, just like using rare or unique helmets becomes more critical.