Haven't really ever commented on lab, but I hate it.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

They do not, and should not waste resources on a minority of players complaining about optional content.

Perhaps you meant to say a "vocal minority" (TM) of players complaining about content that's as mandatory as anything else in the game?

Its not mandatory, feel free to keep thinking soo though. You played before 2.2 and 2.3 just fine and there hasnt been any mechanical changes that would break a build without ascendancy points.

Its hilarious how you guys continue to ignore that fact when anyone can look at the patch notes and prove you wrong.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

You played before 2.2 and 2.3 just fine and there hasnt been any mechanical changes that would break a build without ascendancy points.

As a matter of fact, I'm playing some HC Prophecy but I refuse to touch the lab or ascend any of my characters (a likely futile protest vote). But you're deluded if you think that ascendancy classes aren't going to be required in the future. Either that, or you're fine with the power creep (to put it generously) of balancing the game around characters with no ascendancy classes while giving those classes to everyone else.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

You played before 2.2 and 2.3 just fine and there hasnt been any mechanical changes that would break a build without ascendancy points.

As a matter of fact, I'm playing some HC Prophecy but I refuse to touch the lab or ascend any of my characters (a likely futile protest vote). But you're deluded if you think that ascendancy classes aren't going to be required in the future. Either that, or you're fine with the power creep (to put it generously) of balancing the game around characters with no ascendancy classes while giving those classes to everyone else.

lol'd

=> Ascending isnt mandatory

=>I refuse to do it

=>Plays the game without "mandatory" Ascendancy points

=>Fully admits the game is not at a state where points are mandatory

You people are a broken record with your contradicting statements.

Sure they may be required in like, 5 years when the game has actually balanced out player itemization and tree power against monsters, oh wait, they havent done that like the past few years either like everyone keeps thinking they will.

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Chris has already stated that the acendancies are expected and considered mandatory in character development..

No he didnt lmao. I like how you people keep making up ficticious remarks that Chris has never said. As if the contextual cherry picking from podcast isnt enough lmao.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

They do not, and should not waste resources on a minority of players complaining about optional content.

Perhaps you meant to say a "vocal minority" (TM) of players complaining about content that's as mandatory as anything else in the game?

Its not mandatory, feel free to keep thinking soo though. You played before 2.2 and 2.3 just fine and there hasnt been any mechanical changes that would break a build without ascendancy points.

Its hilarious how you guys continue to ignore that fact when anyone can look at the patch notes and prove you wrong.

Ascendancy classes are worth 10 skill points easily, sometimes a lot more. Sometimes they are so good that they cannot even be measured in skill points.
They are not mandatory in the literal sense but they are way too good to pass up. It's not optional content like Atziri, it's something that drastically improves your characters, to the point that it defines them. How can you play that game and brush that aside?
What if you truly hated the lab, or believed that something like this has no place in PoE? Wouldn't you try to get it changed?

@Jojas - I do hate a particular part of the game but i understand the other point of view and its reason for existing. You guys keep insisting people defending GGG are whiteknight fanboys but thats not the case. EVERY player who loves the game also has something they hate about it. Just like there are people who hate the leveling process, does that mean they should just give away free characters that are already leveled for you ? No.

Ive said it time and time again that i HATE Masters. Masters offer amazing things as well, especially at level 8. I absolutely hate doing masters and i quite literally ignore their existence once i get them to 6. Does that mean i should post a thread every day complaining about it, petitioning its removing and making crafting mods freely available ? No, because thats being entitled and selfish. Its also disrespectful to the developers who put soo much time and effort into creating and implementing it.

They exist as a tool for players who want to craft gear, they also exist as a tool to fix gaps in gearing. If i want that full Master power i have to level them up to 8, OR.. I can use a Master service. Theres literally no difference between Labyrinth and Masters right now. Masters potential is just as good as Labyrinths Ascendancy points when it comes to item power level.

Using Masters is optional content that allows you to greatly improve gear and greatly improves your gearing process. Labyrinth greatly increases your characters power level, while also being entirely optional.

If you want the power, you work for it and earn it yourself, otherwise you pay for the service.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

=>Plays the game without "mandatory" Ascendancy points

So what process do you go through? "Should I ascend this character or not. Hmm maybe I'll skip it this time around? Then again the Lab is such fun, perhaps I'll just do that and not bother with claiming the ascendancy points at the end."

I don't mind playing gimped characters -- in fact I often enjoy it -- but the argument that ascendancy classes are an "optional" part of the game is beyond absurd. However, feel free to play a few characters without assigning any of those "optional" skill points.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

=>Plays the game without "mandatory" Ascendancy points

So what process do you go through? "Should I ascend this character or not. Hmm maybe I'll skip it this time around? Then again the Lab is such fun, perhaps I'll just do that and not bother with claiming the ascendancy points at the end."

I don't mind playing gimped characters -- in fact I often enjoy it -- but the argument that ascendancy classes are an "optional" part of the game is beyond absurd. However, feel free to play a few characters without assigning any of those "optional" skill points.

Theyre optional, its not absurd. I do play my non-ascended characters on standard all the time, thanks. I also use them for testing proof of concept like many others, then use that in new leagues as well.

I find it hilarious how you think the power difference is soo large that its unfeasible that you cant play without them. This just in, OP builds before 2.2 and 2.3 will be just as OP as they were before.

@Tin_Foil_Hat
I completely disagree with what you say about the masters. They smooth progression by helping with gearing (and maps) but that's it. They can help a lot but IMO they are nowhere near the power of ascendancy classes. Besides, one is about items, and items can always be upgraded and discarded and bought and sold, the other is about your build. There is quite a difference between the two. But that's not the issue here.

I agree with your last sentence though. To get an ascendancy class you should have to go through some kind of trial, and that trial should not be a cakewalk. Neither should you get it just by solving quests.
I think GGG did its best in implementing a system that is not exclusive to high-end chars with top-end gear but to everyone with skill and patience. That's what such a trial should be about.
I don't much like the lab but I could never for the life of me come up with something better, that is both accesssible for everyone and has this challenging trial character that the lab has.