The Chisel Bubble: Using currency to roll maps, vs buying maps

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Mentoya wrote:

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As I explained earlier in this thread, you need to get 4 Alchs back to break even. Whatever you find in a rare map, you'll find 75% of the same stuff in a blue map, assuming average rolls.

Wait, how do you need 4 alchs to break even when you've only spent 1 alch to begin with???

if you need 4 alchs to break even, then why do I have a constant supply of increasing alchs???

If a business is pulling in $6000 per month, then they begin an aggressive ad campaign which costs them $4000 per month, and the result of that campaign is revenue rises to $8000 per month... is that a successful ad campaign? No. Overall, it's costing them $2000 per month to run. Increasing revenue isn't the same conceptually as increasing profit.

In the same way, increasing your raw loot drops isn't the same thing as profit. As I said, you get 75% of the same stuff in your average blue map. Let's say you're getting 2 Alchs per rare map. Is that breaking even? No. Because you could be getting 1.5 Alchs per blue map. You're spending 1 Alch to get half an Alch more than you normally would.

I do not doubt you when you say you're stacking up Alchs. But you could be stacking them up even faster. You'd be better off saving your Alchs up and trying to trade them for something nice. Probably after converting them to some other currency.

I guess I'll try it once more and see if I get the huge supply of maps that you guarantee I will get using trans/aug as opposed to using Alchs..... But since you promise me that I'll still get tons of maps trans/aug, I'll try it once more and make sure I keep track of how many maps I'm finding per map.


to me, it's about building a large map pool, as large as I can possibly get it. That's my goal. But again, I'll try your way.

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Mentoya wrote:

to me, it's about building a large map pool, as large as I can possibly get it. That's my goal. But again, I'll try your way.

If that means farming them yourself, do it the way you were before. If buying them off another player is okay with you, follow my advice.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Nice post will follow. I like the summary diction as my eyes glaze over at maths. I know I should just buy maps. Its a principle thing more than anything. Paying for content WTF?

I only like trade to go one way first of all growing my currency count at others expense. Then I like to save for high budget items not maps

Buying/trading for a map is not "paying for content". It's simply not what those words mean and I wish you people would stop saying it, mainly because "paying for content" already has a definition in gaming.

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RandallPOE wrote:

"Why do people always add maths to these things... you know, these RNG based things... you're just wasting time."

Are you quoting somebody?

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Nice post will follow. I like the summary diction as my eyes glaze over at maths. I know I should just buy maps. Its a principle thing more than anything. Paying for content WTF?

I only like trade to go one way first of all growing my currency count at others expense. Then I like to save for high budget items not maps

Buying/trading for a map is not "paying for content". It's simply not what those words mean and I wish you people would stop saying it, mainly because "paying for content" already has a definition in gaming.

Well go and shout someone selling some T15s and tell them you won't pay for them because the definition of paying for content is already taken.

I get the feeling they won't be handing over those maps unless you pay.

unless your paying real cash, then no you are not paying for content. even then, you'd need to be paying GGG directly for it to be considered "paying for content" every other version of it is called RMT which is entirely different.

@Topic

I alch every map.

Reason is pretty simple, its cost vs time not cost vs map value. It takes me approx. the same time to run a rare map as it does a magic one, and the extra drops will be worth more than an alch in most cases.

The maps could be completely free and alch'ing would still be beneficial.

Re-rolling and chiseling is something else entirely, that I don't do. If for some reason I get a beast of a map I can't run, i'd sell it not chaos it.

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Asmosis wrote:

unless your paying real cash, then no you are not paying for content

We can all make rules up that make no sense but fit a point.

Doesn't make them or the point right.

Interesting thread, and a valid one, except for the point where you take it to the extreme.
The gist of this post is correct, but you should be comparing investing currency in maps versus buying new alched maps, not versus buying new transmuted maps. Above, say, tier 6 conservatively speaking, blue maps are just not an option, and they shouldn't be. Ever.

You say that "trans and augs" are basically free. The same is said for Alchs in the context of running maps. The higher level the map is, and the better map quantity/pack size you roll, the more free (or, really, negative cost) it is. You're going to make that alch back in better drops/exp per hour alone, unless your build is so bad that it can't run most rare maps safely and efficiently.

Your fundamental point is right, though, people spend too much emphasis on rerolling mid-tier maps or using chisels or what have you. We (myself included) avoid just buying maps, when it would make a ton of sense to do so if not for some unspoken "self-found challenge" aspect of it.

Personally, I might (or might not) modify the way I run maps so as to be more open to buying ones outright on POE.trade when it makes sense to do so. However, to run blue tier 11+ maps is going full retard, and anyone with even limited mapping experience knows that in their bones.

I never recommended running blue 11+ Tier maps. Tier 8, yeah, but only in one league specifically, due to the economic conditions in that league.

In a self-found setting I definitely think Tier 6 and up should be Alch'd. But I'm not assuming self-found, I'm assuming mapbuying. This, the current market values determine optimal behavior, and the league choice is very relevant. Prices could change and my advice would too.

Oh, and when I say Tier 9 is borderline in TSC I mean DO Alch your white maps but DO NOT Scour or Regal your blue maps.

Must have been someone else that was talking about blue tier 11 then. Sorry about that.

I ended up running blues up through 7, I think, and I regret it. I am never running out of alchs, and I feel like I delayed my map progression by doing that. I can't imagine that you "save" enough alchs to actually buy maps of any value with this process, and trading alchs for chaos seems like a pain and potential rip off. I know I certainly didn't save much by going a level or two beyond the convential "run blue vs. alch and go" threshhold.