The Chisel Bubble: Using currency to roll maps, vs buying maps

I think it should be accounted that by alching maps, you are also increasing a chance that an alch drops within the map - which is very accountable on average like you said 30%+. :-)

In general increased currency return should not be omitted from this magic/yellow map reasoning.

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Filousov wrote:

I think it should be accounted that by alching maps, you are also increasing a chance that an alch drops within the map - which is very accountable on average like you said 30%+. :-)

In general increased currency return should not be omitted from this magic/yellow map reasoning.

For maps worth 2 Alchs each (or less), the choice is to run 2 rare maps, or 3+ blue maps. The 3 blue maps cost the same or less and yield more loot of all types: maps, currency, gear, everything.

2*1.827=3.654
3*1.349=4.047

For maps worth 3 Alchs each (or more), the choice is to run 3+ rare maps, or 4 blue maps. The 3 rare maps cost the same or less and yield more loot of all types.

3*1.827=5.481
4*1.349=5.396

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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:

I have no clue how you figure your value of an alch. Alchs are 250:1 ex alts are 640:1 ex.

You can DIY the currency ratios if you want. The point is whether a particular map is worth less than 2.8 Alchs, or more (the "hard" number is in Alchs because Alchs are the currency used, convert from there). If 2.8 Alchs is almost nothing, then it's a question of whether or not the trade value of the map is almost nothing, or not.

I typed "2.8 Alchs" into the max buyout in PoE.trade and went with the results. If you disagree then you either disagree with the market or with PoE.trade's currency ratios.

It is always worth it to alch maps. Always. If you are measuring your returns solely on map drops, then perhaps it is not, but the quantity and rarity applies to every drop. The alch will pay for itself in alterations if you pick up stuff to vendor.

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LordAdagio wrote:

Personally, I’m not sure to understand what was the initial question.

Let’s take a very simple example. I have a white map, level 8. It’s my last map. I also have an alch, and there is another level 8 map (also white) for sale, for 1 alch.

buy the second map. a large map pool helps counter uneven map drop streaks better than alch n go ever will.

there is a good chance that alch map will drop jack shit where as there is a very good chance atleat 1 of those two blues will be a winner.

that being said alching makes it easier to recoup investment since it will make it easier to scale off of any item find gear you have.

Personally the biggest problem with maps is the time it takes to run them, esp lower ones. So while you save a few alchs you spend more time in blue maps. (you also save the time this shitty trade system takes when you try to buy all the maps)

Other then that, great post. +1.

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Zhatan wrote:

Personally the biggest problem with maps is the time it takes to run them, esp lower ones. So while you save a few alchs you spend more time in blue maps. (you also save the time this shitty trade system takes when you try to buy all the maps)

Other then that, great post. +1.

This argument, at the very least, has a very precarious balance. You're talking about spending currency - which, in this context, means spending maps - for a temporary boost in loot per unit time (not loot per map, I've already covered that). So it's basically doing damage to your map pool, in exchange for faster progression.

If you're rich and the maps are good XP, I could see it. If you're poor or trying to save up for something, better not.

Why there is no comparison between average currency drop with and without alch?
That can cover that:
Low tier: 1/0.295 = 3.39 Alchs (meaning: never Alch low tier)
Mid tier: 1/0.354 = 2.82 Alchs (so if the map isn't worth at least 3 Alchs, do not Alch it)
Top tier: 1/0.369 = 2.71 Alchs (so Alch all of your top tier maps)

From testing and lots of hours played at average i can easily cover that 3.4alch cost of alching lowtier maps by finding more currency that in comparison to blues.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Filousov wrote:

I think it should be accounted that by alching maps, you are also increasing a chance that an alch drops within the map - which is very accountable on average like you said 30%+. :-)

In general increased currency return should not be omitted from this magic/yellow map reasoning.

For maps worth 2 Alchs each (or less), the choice is to run 2 rare maps, or 3+ blue maps. The 3 blue maps cost the same or less and yield more loot of all types: maps, currency, gear, everything.

2*1.827=3.654
3*1.349=4.047

For maps worth 3 Alchs each (or more), the choice is to run 3+ rare maps, or 4 blue maps. The 3 rare maps cost the same or less and yield more loot of all types.

3*1.827=5.481
4*1.349=5.396

"

Fluffy_Puppies wrote:

I have no clue how you figure your value of an alch. Alchs are 250:1 ex alts are 640:1 ex.

You can DIY the currency ratios if you want. The point is whether a particular map is worth less than 2.8 Alchs, or more (the "hard" number is in Alchs because Alchs are the currency used, convert from there). If 2.8 Alchs is almost nothing, then it's a question of whether or not the trade value of the map is almost nothing, or not.

I typed "2.8 Alchs" into the max buyout in PoE.trade and went with the results. If you disagree then you either disagree with the market or with PoE.trade's currency ratios.

Your math is just overly complicated and wrong. An alch is worth only 2.56 alterations. It has virtually no value at all. That 2.56 alts spent is more than made up for in extra drops / maps from the map itself. If you are alting / auging to get a good blue map it nearly instantly becomes more expensive than just alching and running. Chaos doesn't come into the picture for low tiers below 7 either. The mods are too easy to ever need to chaos the alched map.

It isn't like alchs are a limited resource either, alching each map a player will never run out of alchs, because more than 1 alch are gotten on average either from direct drops or alch shards from rares.


Just looked at maps for sale on standard. There are a total of 10 tier 7 maps and 9 tier 6 maps at 1 alch a piece or less. The maps are worthless and the currency is worthless. Using a worthless currency on a worthless map to get more loot that is actually good (alts / chaos / more maps that are hopefully higher tier) is nothing but a good deal.

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@Fluffy: I did not refer to using Alterations at all. To clarify: don't do it, not worth it; only if you can't handle a map affix for some reason. Trans, Aug if necessary, go.