Sheer Frustration: 27 5L's later, no 6L...... Yes, Twenty-fucking-Seven 5L's.

Picking this post, I hate this argument:

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Actkqk wrote:

6 is a luxury. If a build can not be sustained with 5 then you're doing wrong. Currently my character only has items with 4, and I'm happy with its performance :) (Marauder, lvl 73)

With the exception of maybe Righteous Fire and Searing Bond (which work perfectly fine with 4-5 Link and don't really need a 6th gem), every build in the game just gets an incredible boost by additional links.

You can easily get two times "50% more damage" multipliers on your paper DpS jumping from 4L to 5L to 6L, which is more than double the damage output.

So "I'm doing fine with 4 Links" doesn't say shit.
If you get from 8k DpS on your 4L to 12k with 5L and 18k with 6L, you would do better.
Yes, you can clear maps with 8k, but you'd clear twice as fast.

6L is a "luxury" because of the stupid RNG in PoE, but getting more links is also a logical progression in making your character more powerful.

PoE is like the only ARPG I've ever seen where you are limited in your skill usage through drop/RNG.
In any other, if I want to shoot fireballs, I put skillpoints into fireball and its mods, and I'm set. Here, I'm restricted.

The whole socket stuff (Socket Number, Colors and Links) is just horrible. You can deal with it by a) luck or b) brute force currency investment, but the question is: why do I have to deal with such a thing in the first place?

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Peterlerock wrote:

6L is a "luxury" because of the stupid RNG in PoE, but getting more links is also a logical progression in making your character more powerful.

Some people even think 5L is a luxury. Gotta tell all those posting builds in builds section, streamers, mappers... they are dumbasses for not face-rolling endgame with 4L.


And yeah, sometimes the only way to boost your DPS and progress to the next map tier, is to upgrade links on your gear (that usually means getting a 5L for Merc A3 & maps). Not that people living on guild handouts & shopping would understand about linking your own gear... -_-

"

Peterlerock wrote:

You can easily get two times "50% more damage" multipliers on your paper DpS jumping from 4L to 5L to 6L, which is more than double the damage output.

So "I'm doing fine with 4 Links" doesn't say shit.
If you get from 8k DpS on your 4L to 12k with 5L and 18k with 6L, you would do better.
Yes, you can clear maps with 8k, but you'd clear twice as fast.

6L is a "luxury" because of the stupid RNG in PoE, but getting more links is also a logical progression in making your character more powerful.

PoE is like the only ARPG I've ever seen where you are limited in your skill usage through drop/RNG.
In any other, if I want to shoot fireballs, I put skillpoints into fireball and its mods, and I'm set. Here, I'm restricted.

Your first argument invalidates your second.

The jump from 4L to 5L, or 5L to 6L, is almost never about core functionality of the skill. If you need your skill to leech or to proliferate elemental status effects or whatever actual mechanics change you need, it's almost always done with the first small handful of support gems.

Instead, those jumps are, in practice, just DPS increases. And, yes, doing more and more DPS is the very crux of what it means to upgrade your gear beyond what you actually need in an ARPG. More DPS is a luxury, and I dare you to think of any other type of boost which is simultaneously desirable and not actually required for mapping.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

More DPS is a luxury, and I dare you to think of any other type of boost which is simultaneously desirable and not actually required for mapping.

Then playing Merc A3 boss runs & maps (what most of the player-base is doing) is a luxury.

Yup, 6L is not luxury. Yes, it have to be not easy to get/craft one, it have to be expensive process, it requires efforts either. But there have to be borders set and a mechanic to justify your efforts must be present.
Most of the builds lategame need 6L to compete the difficulty. Most of the players lategame are (relatively) rich to afford to craft a 6L item. When they fail during the process, knocked down by the "rng is rng" factor, it brings nothing than harsh frustration 'bout efforts wasted.

Hard work/investment requires heavy profits. Any different than that is unfair, punishing, badly designed.

I could never ever understand the defenders of the current system. Is it by stupidity, misunderstanding, or anything else, can't answer.

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Perfect_Black wrote:

Actually, no, I didn't expect to suffer.

You are expected to suffer by game developers. What did you expect will matter if you make your own game.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The jump from 4L to 5L, or 5L to 6L, is almost never about core functionality of the skill. If you need your skill to leech or to proliferate elemental status effects or whatever actual mechanics change you need, it's almost always done with the first small handful of support gems.

Instead, those jumps are, in practice, just DPS increases. And, yes, doing more and more DPS is the very crux of what it means to upgrade your gear beyond what you actually need in an ARPG. More DPS is a luxury, and I dare you to think of any other type of boost which is simultaneously desirable and not actually required for mapping.

It can also be the other way around.

I've looked at the "Knockback Reaver" iE, who uses a 6L with Reave + 3 damage supports + Knockback + increased AoE.

Yes, in theory you could play this with Reave + KB +iAoE +multistrike, but it would be horrible.
You would take ages to kill monsters, the dude in the guide has ~17k DpS with a mirrored sword, what do you think it would be with a more realistic 250 DpS sword and two missing damage supports? 5k? Good luck farming Docks+Lunaris till Level 90...

Same goes for gems like "blood magic", "elemental proliferation". Yes, you could have them in your 4L, but more often than not, you will not do enough straightup DpS with just "main attack +2 supports", so a 5-6L is pretty much required to use them.

And I'm not even touching the "Cast on Crit/melee kill" combinations, that eat up 2+ gem slots.

DpS does matter to be able to progress, you can't just say it is a luxury.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

The jump from 4L to 5L, or 5L to 6L, is almost never about core functionality of the skill. If you need your skill to leech or to proliferate elemental status effects or whatever actual mechanics change you need, it's almost always done with the first small handful of support gems.

Instead, those jumps are, in practice, just DPS increases. And, yes, doing more and more DPS is the very crux of what it means to upgrade your gear beyond what you actually need in an ARPG. More DPS is a luxury, and I dare you to think of any other type of boost which is simultaneously desirable and not actually required for mapping.

It can also be the other way around.

I've looked at the "Knockback Reaver" iE, who uses a 6L with Reave + 3 damage supports + Knockback + increased AoE.

Yes, in theory you could play this with Reave + KB +iAoE +multistrike, but it would be horrible.
You would take ages to kill monsters, the dude in the guide has ~17k DpS with a mirrored sword, what do you think it would be with a more realistic 250 DpS sword and two missing damage supports? 5k? Good luck farming Docks+Lunaris till Level 90...

Same goes for gems like "blood magic", "elemental proliferation". Yes, you could have them in your 4L, but more often than not, you will not do enough straightup DpS with just "main attack +2 supports", so a 5-6L is pretty much required to use them.

And I'm not even touching the "Cast on Crit/melee kill" combinations, that eat up 2+ gem slots.

DpS does matter to be able to progress, you can't just say it is a luxury.

Nop, the last gem is a luxury.
If you don't have enough dps with 5L, fix your build/weapon ( 250dps weapon is not really high, it's just correct, I hope for you that you'll get better by level ~85 ... ).
2 Damage support is enough if you want to knockback wit your 5L, it will be a little slower, but still perfectly viable.
And many setup can work quite fine with 4L, not all of them, granted.

"

torturo wrote:

Most of the builds lategame need 6L to compete the difficulty.

Two Week Charity Race Results
#5. horrific — level 96 — 5L Animate Weapon + Faster Attacks + Splash + Multistrike + Inc Dur
#4. Shimmra — level 97 — 5L Split Arrow + Culling Strike + Chain + Blood Magic + Life Gain on Hit
#3. Etup — level 97 — 4L Arc + Empower + Faster Casting + Lightning Penetration
#2. Goratha — level 97 — 6L Spec Throw + LMP + Faster Attacks + Life Leech + Blood Magic + WED
#1. Pulpfictionz — level 98 — 5L Det Dead + Conc Effect + Ele Prolif + Chance to Ignite + Fire Pen
Note: Etup had a 5L armour but decided to socket Vaal Spark in it and usually didn't keep Vaal Spark on his skillbar.

Sources: pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/919232, youtube.com/watch?v=vMJ4LTzwSX4

The only way you can believe that 6L is anything but a luxury is if you are supremely out of touch with reality.

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Peterlerock wrote:

DpS does matter to be able to progress, you can't just say it is a luxury.

This is questionable. Adding 6th support can increase your damage output for say 20%, so things will die 20% faster.
Now you are trying to say, that with X damage output one can't progress (not able to), and with 1,2*X damage out one suddenly can (able to).

Survivability is what actually matters to be able to progress.
If I have high dps, I will progress fast. If I have low dps, I will progress slow. If I have 1000 life -60 all resists I will die to every white pack and not progress at all.