This policy is a reason why the game will always be rigged with RMT and illegal Crosstrades

"

When lots of people are poor and are determined to move up, they will turn to shady things like cross league trading and RMT.

I agree that several players are motivated to RMT because PoE is like an Asia Grinder and casuals don't have got the same gameexperience in terms of content as no lifers.

But enforcement is a way to stop it.

And PoE got enforcement at all. Everbody gets a "get out of jail" card.


Example:
Streamer uses Maphack during a race and only receives a warning from a dev.
Another streamer uses maphack in several races and still isn't banned.
Check reddit for the stream.

RMTboard-> /topic.php?t=67080324&f=160&o=0

A caught RMTer got this warning


The later the threads the more fun those users make about RMT enforcement.

The 10 month till banned user got shamed for ages and even got some of his tradethreads locked iirc.
He even PMed something like "30 exalteds for 300$" on his stream how he bought an item or also taking FG?
He even got a partner in crime who still isn't banned.


And you can clearly see that GGG pretends they would enforce it:
Devpost:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/482046/page/8#p4256652
My answer:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/482046/page/9#p4257181

I can also post the mail consversations that post the standard stuff about RMTers "getting banned".


I reported a 50k and later 20-30k fluctuating fools gold user. The cases were 100% and they only thing happened is that they did steps to go under the radar

Do you really think I will report a high tier 325k fools gold user? When he just receives a warning? And goes under the radar in future?

First I want to see that blatant RMTers get banned instead of warned before I report big fish.

And the majority of you wants to see normal prices?
Back in CB there was barely RMT and most RMT action were sold CB Keys.
Vendor receipes were far more powerful and the game faster paced and still you payed 5 chaos at Best for items now selling for 30-40 chaos orbs.

"

allbusiness wrote:

People wouldn't RMT if they weren't compelled to. People will always RMT; GGG's job is to minimize it, which they clearly are not doing a very good job at.


Also high crime rate is not synonymous with lack of enforcement. There's a distinct lack of enforcement in various MMOs and yet hardly anyone RMTs in those. High crime rate in real life is linked to socioeconomic status more than anything. So guess what happens here too? When lots of people are poor and are determined to move up, they will turn to shady things like cross league trading and RMT.

In case you haven't noticed, Scrotie is defending PoE in his own way now, by trolling in his own wordy style. Can't tell by the tone ?

Everybody just seems burnt out now.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

To all those miserable QQers who say RMT is caused by low progression — essentially RMT apologists — Hilbert here is giving the real reason. In most cases, high crime rates are caused by cops failing to enforce laws, and that's precisely the situation here. It's not the nature of the game, but the fact that the risk of penalty is so low which causes infractions.

Why not stronger enforcement? My best guess is some kind of misguided sympathy for RMT buyers, viewing them as essentially non-criminals (perhaps as "potential" legit players), while instead trying to focus on RMT sellers who represent the true nastiness — botting, hacking, spamming, even sweatshop-style labor. But all that nasty stuff would have no payoff if not for the buyers, they are the component that turns all that malicious activity into an industry. As such, they are accomplices too it and are guilty as well. (Same with street drugs — if you're funding Mexican cartels who declare war on their government and murder federal agents, then you're partially responsible for those deaths.)

Plus, RMT buyers are a LOT easier to catch than the sellers.

This sympathy towards RMT buyers has to stop. GGG should punish them, and punish them mercilessly.

People wouldn't RMT if they weren't compelled to. People will always RMT; GGG's job is to minimize it, which they clearly are not doing a very good job at.


Also high crime rate is not synonymous with lack of enforcement. There's a distinct lack of enforcement in various MMOs and yet hardly anyone RMTs in those. High crime rate in real life is linked to socioeconomic status more than anything. So guess what happens here too? When lots of people are poor and are determined to move up, they will turn to shady things like cross league trading and RMT.

No, it's when a lot of people don't enjoy playing the game yet they feel compelled to anyway, either because they want to lie to their friends (acting as if they're into a hipster indie game when they're not), or to lie to themselves (as if there's anything past maps except more maps, so RMTing for map gear serves no purpose whatsoever because you're not skipping anything).

In real life, the problem isn't the same, because lots of people can't find work. That situation doesnt exist in PoE; everyone can farm/trade, at any time. If real life were like PoE, everyone would have a guaranteed job and unemployment would be zero. That doesn't mean everyone would work; some would choose to work less, some to work more, some none. The poor would still QQ but no fucks would be given.

But the core motivation is always the same: trying to "beat" an unbeatable game which the RMTer doesn't actually enjoy playing. Which makes it an addiction and a mental illness rather than sane behavior.

When the vast majority of your wealth is concentrated on .1% of your population people will be compelled to RMT. Just because you have jobs doesn't mean they are good jobs.

"

Powertrip wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

People wouldn't RMT if they weren't compelled to. People will always RMT; GGG's job is to minimize it, which they clearly are not doing a very good job at.


Also high crime rate is not synonymous with lack of enforcement. There's a distinct lack of enforcement in various MMOs and yet hardly anyone RMTs in those. High crime rate in real life is linked to socioeconomic status more than anything. So guess what happens here too? When lots of people are poor and are determined to move up, they will turn to shady things like cross league trading and RMT.

In case you haven't noticed, Scrotie is defending PoE in his own way now, by trolling in his own wordy style. Can't tell by the tone ?

Everybody just seems burnt out now.

I'm not defending PoE. GGG fails to aggressively pursue RMTers, and thus is allowing malicious economic elements to flourish. If you say "the economy is the most important part of the game to us" then don't come down hard on RMT, you're a liar.

Nor am I saying the game is perfect. Just because you don't enjoy playing PoE doesn't mean you're insane, and there are a lot of valid complaints about replayability, especially in endgame. However, at no time does this justify RMT as all the apologists attempt to claim. If you don't enjoy playing a game, the mentally healthy solution is: Stop. Fucking. Playing. If desired, you can leave a post or posts in Feedback explaining why you no longer found the game enjoyable, and that's cool; I'm not saying you need to be an active player to be an active forumer with valid opinions. However, saying "endgame progression sucks, therefore I'm considering RMT" is literally a symptom of mental illness, and that IS on you and not on GGG... but that doesn't mean you need to smile and keep playing a game you think is shit.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Nor am I saying the game is perfect. Just because you don't enjoy playing PoE doesn't mean you're insane, and there are a lot of valid complaints about replayability, especially in endgame. However, at no time does this justify RMT as all the apologists attempt to claim. If you don't enjoy playing a game, the mentally healthy solution is: Stop. Fucking. Playing. If desired, you can leave some a post or posts in Feedback explaining why you no longer found the game enjoyable, and that's cool. Saying "endgame progression sucks, therefore I'm considering RMT" is literally a symptom of mental illness, and that IS on you and not on GGG... but that doesn't mean you need to smile and keep playing a game you think is shit.

I think saying it's a symptom of mental illness naively simplifies the problem. Hell, even a thread like this can be part of the problem. You might end up with people who read this thread and think to themselves; 'Might as well rmt if ggg doesn't give a shit.' I mean even something like GGG moving this thread to feedback can be misinterpreted as them trying to bury it and thus being soft on rmt and producing a few more abusers.

Anyway, my point is people who genuinely enjoy PoE and care about getting past the game's difficulties might feel like it's an open secret that it's 'ok' to rmt because ggg seems soft on it which is the crux of the op problem that goes much deeper than most of us that care about the game feel is acceptable.

Thus you get numerous threads about how crafting sucks, drop rates sucks, trade sucks, economic prices are jacked all over in a game that's only a few months released ~ all those feelings can lead to rmt.

"

'Might as well rmt if ggg doesn't give a shit.'

It becomes a more serious matter then and they have to "give a shit"

And imo Chris reddit post on suspension matters is far more harmful than this thread.

"

Thus you get numerous threads about how crafting sucks, drop rates sucks, trade sucks, economic prices are jacked all over in a game that's only a few months released ~ all those feelings can lead to rmt.

I agree but if GGG would use proper enforcement they would receive feedback on a level of "loot allocation" to change it and the game wouldn't die like an Asiagrinder within some months.


Several users feel compelled to do RMT to bypass those issues.

In fact players feeling affected by those issues have 2 solutions:
Stop playing or do RMT.
The majority of those players leaves others do RMT.

I think this exact problem is more of a situation of confusing rules. I said it in the reddit post but just got downvoted for whatever reason, but it should just be across the board, no interleague trading. Having it ok for standard/HC but not to week races/temp leagues is confusing and anyone caught can obviously play the dumb card.

It shouldn't be allowed period then they can be more aggressive with rule enforcement. Of course, they have to be aggressive with it and no choose to give out suspensions but rather bannings.

I also would like to clarify: just because it's insane to RMT doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That's be like saying people don't get addicted to crack. I believe that GGG has the best of intents here (regardless of results) and is trying to make a quality game and not a Skinner box, that the aim is fun and not addiction, that the addiction of some is a side effect not a primary effect.

For RMT buyers, strong enforcement is more than just hurting RMT sellers by taking away their (repeat) business; it's also shows mercy on the RMT buyer, allowing them to escape their mental illness by no longer enabling them. I'm not saying I justify mental illness because I don't, and I believe those with issues need to be fully accountable for their actions, but given my personal history (I've been insane myself) I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't empathize. If you are no longer enjoying the game, stop torturing yourself and get out.

This rule is pointless, because it cant be enforced. Only streamers can possibly be caught in the act (if they are reckless enough to do it on stream), for everyone else there is plausible deniability, even if GGG has logs showing "suspicious activity".

What seems like a cross-trade, can be just two "bro-deals" among friends or guild members.

The only action a sane person can take to whats happening right in front of every-ones eyes to play totaly self-found and ignore trading all together.

Unfortunately we live in the real world and GGG in there wisdom decided to balance the game and drop rates based on how many orbs are in the economy with zero thought as to how they got there.

Ive said it a 1000 times UNTRADEABLE ORBS(separate to normal orbs) from races or what-ever they like. so at least people can craft with-out having to buy orbs from questionable sources.

But GGG dont respond to critism ever so we dont know if they care or what.