Top Reasons I Like Trading, an Economy, and am Sick of Economy Hate Threads

Forum mucked up -

I really don't have any issue with trading. In fact I tend to like it because it is pretty interesting to find decent deals. The problem is the absurdly clunky, dated way the trading system has been implemented.

Trading is not the barter system that was originally intended. In fact there is currency in this game despite anything that GGG says. Currency essentially is defined as Transmission from person to person as a medium of exchange. Now read that and try and argue with me that orbs are not forms of currency. You cannot. They are in fact currency. The only difference in orbs and gold is that they have more than one function, albeit the alternative function is really not used all that much unless you are talking about fusings, chances, scours, chromes and jewellers. The currency is consumable, but it is in fact currency.

Also, if GGG wants their player base able to reach end-game content only by utilizing the economy then they need to ensure that people understand that AND also have exponentially better implementation of the trading function. First problem is the trade channels. I am not going to expound on that. Everyone knows the trade channels are a disaster. Second is the fact that you have to search poe.xyz.is, find what you want, then check the forums to ensure that the item is still for sale, then hope the player is online, if not online then pm them on the forum and try to coordinate the trade, then finally get ahold of the seller, then figure out what random currency exchange ratio the seller is deciding to use, then determine if your currency exchange ratio matches up with the seller's, then haggle for a final price, then join the seller in a party, then wait for the seller to finish their map, then meet in one place, then wait for the trade request to come, then finish trade.....profit.

Insanely clunky and inefficient. More needs to be done to streamline the trading process and allow people not to log on and spend the better part of an hour just trying to get a hold of a seller so that you can purchase a piece of gear so that you can go do that map you have been waiting to do.

More focus on the game play needs to occur in my opinion. I don't care if trading is pretty much required to enter end game content comfortably, but I do care if I have to waste half the time I have to game on actually get 1-2 pieces of gear.

Bu+Mi : You two clearly do not have the same definition of what is "Balanced around trading" ( not even talking about definition of trading.)

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BuDiu wrote:

POE is not balanced around trading. Monsters are balanced around the best stats achievable by items and player level.

Drop rates in POE are based on RNG. Not trade.

What kind of horribly flawed thought process are you using here.....

just wow

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BuDiu wrote:

And if you say NPC interaction is not trading, you are just plain old dumb. Its a clear trade between you and the Non Player Character. And yes it was the earliest form of meaningful trade on ARPG.

The other guy is right. NPC interaction isn't at all what people are talking about. Who the hell brought that up?

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BuDiu wrote:

Right, bind on account items. That is a TERRIBLE system. Most will agree with me. Few will disagree.

Regarding NPC trading we can drop this subject because it was just a point that trading is a core part of all ARPGS and you seem to have understood that at least.

And no, drop rates are not solely based around trading. Some things are such as Koams, and other super godly end game items that are meant for only the richest and/or luckiest players to have. If you want poe to become a "monochrome" everyone has all the best gear type of game, then I lost all respect there.

Drop rates are based on the FACT that some items are meant to be had by the masses, while others are meant to be ULTRA RARE, and only the luckiest will find or richest will buy.

Drop rates are based on the economy and only economy, that is the FACT. It is the fact because chris said it.

Another fact is, if they made trading easier, they would lower the drop rates of items because of the economy (this is also a fact because chris said it exactly same on the stream). The drop rates are balanced around the economy. And other mechanics are there because economy.

Also I am not talking about best of best items, I am talking about normal items you need to progress and how much you need to grind in the game if you do not trade. This is the only arpg game that has so much grind to progress if you do not want to trade. Again I am talking about player to player trading.

I want PoE and drop rates to be like other arpg games like titan quest, torchlight, diablo 2, loki, sacred. I do not want PoE to be a grind fest like korean MMO (it means farming for hours without a reword), or how d3 was.

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miljan wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

Right, bind on account items. That is a TERRIBLE system. Most will agree with me. Few will disagree.

Regarding NPC trading we can drop this subject because it was just a point that trading is a core part of all ARPGS and you seem to have understood that at least.

And no, drop rates are not solely based around trading. Some things are such as Koams, and other super godly end game items that are meant for only the richest and/or luckiest players to have. If you want poe to become a "monochrome" everyone has all the best gear type of game, then I lost all respect there.

Drop rates are based on the FACT that some items are meant to be had by the masses, while others are meant to be ULTRA RARE, and only the luckiest will find or richest will buy.

Drop rates are based on the economy and only economy, that is the FACT. It is the fact because chris said it.

Another fact is, if they made trading easier, they would lower the drop rates of items because of the economy (this is also a fact because chris said it exactly same on the stream). The drop rates are balanced around the economy. And other mechanics are there because economy.

Also I am not talking about best of best items, I am talking about normal items you need to progress and how much you need to grind in the game if you do not trade. This is the only arpg game that has so much grind to progress if you do not want to trade. Again I am talking about player to player trading.

I want PoE and drop rates to be like other arpg games like titan quest, torchlight, diablo 2, loki, sacred. I do not want PoE to be a grind fest like korean MMO (it means farming for hours without a reword), or how d3 was.

ya like d2... where you could clear your way to baal hell with a naked party. Thats right. You can clear up to baal hell NAKED.

if you think farming for hours in this game has no reward, you simply do not know how to farm.

i guess you never played any of the fresh leagues from scratch. i went from 1-70 with little to no trading. I traded like a chaos to have someone kill merci vaal for me. All gear was self found up till level 70. Thats when i used all my savings to buy a better weapon.

and when you mention drop rates, there are items on every game you listed that have absurdly low drop rates. And that 99% of the player base obtained by trading.

and not like d3 was for gods sake. d3 was the biggest flop in gaming history.

also drop rates are not "based on the economy". Some items are meant to be hard to find, and if players wish to have that Instant gratification for it, they are supposed to fork out a ton of currency for it.

things are not based on trading or based on the economy, GGG wants players to interact in a meaningful way beyond just spamming skills. Thats where trading come in.

trading is there for that player that grinded for 1000s of hours yet could not find the armor he wanted, so in that 1000s of hours he was able to find many other good items he can sell and save up to buy that big item.

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BuDiu wrote:

Regarding NPC trading we can drop this subject because it was just a point that trading is a core part of all ARPGS and you seem to have understood that at least.

If you cut that silly "core" you would actually be right. But you don't want to say that in D2, when you sold all your junk for gold and used that gold to gamble and just maybe hit the jackpot and get the unique that you were looking for, that this was a "core mechanic"?

Or in any other arpg? D1, D2, Nox, Sacred, Torchlight, Titan Quest etc., trading was always possible but it never was a core mechanic. Because, and here's the thing: You could do away with it and nothing would have really changed.

But do away with trading in D3 (pre Loot 2.0) and it really hits the game bad. Same with PoE.

And regarding a previous post of yours: WoW is not an ARPG. Do you even know what that is, an ARPG?

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Jojas wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

Regarding NPC trading we can drop this subject because it was just a point that trading is a core part of all ARPGS and you seem to have understood that at least.

If you cut that silly "core" you would actually be right. But you don't want to say that in D2, when you sold all your junk for gold and used that gold to gamble and just maybe hit the jackpot and get the unique that you were looking for, that this was a "core mechanic"?

Or in any other arpg? D1, D2, Nox, Sacred, Torchlight, Titan Quest etc., trading was always possible but it never was a core mechanic. Because, and here's the thing: You could do away with it and nothing would have really changed.

But do away with trading in D3 (pre Loot 2.0) and it really hits the game bad. Same with PoE.

And regarding a previous post of yours: WoW is not an ARPG. Do you even know what that is, an ARPG?

so items were not a core part of D2? because you can clear to baal hell naked if you didnt know.

just because you can go by without something does not mean what you are saying.

i can play wow without raiding and pvping. does that make those 2 aspects NOT CORE MECHANICS? no...

ARPG stands for ACTION RPG.

sub-genre of role-playing video games that incorporate elements of action or action-adventure games, emphasizing real-time action where the player has direct control over characters, instead of turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use combat systems similar to hack and slash

you telling me, wow is not hack and slack like, it does not have real time action with players having direct controll of their character, INSTEAD OF TURN-BASED OR MENU BASED. wow is EXACTLY that and some more AKA MASSIVE ONLINE MULTIPLIER

Yes, reading comprehension. Here's the thing, again: Nothing really would have changed.

Now compare that to your naked D2-runs and whatever WoW.

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Jojas wrote:

Yes, reading comprehension. Here's the thing, again: Nothing really would have changed.

Now compare that to your naked D2-runs and whatever WoW.

ok so lets remove trading from d2. chances are you will not find a windforce or a zod rune. Or be able to make an enigma, or find a soj. Same concept in POE. You will likely never find a Koams or whatever super rare item.

how is it any different?

and how is wow not an ARPG again?