Top Reasons I Like Trading, an Economy, and am Sick of Economy Hate Threads

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iamstryker wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

things are not based on trading or based on the economy, GGG wants players to interact in a meaningful way beyond just spamming skills. Thats where trading come in.

If you read the forums you can easily see the people do not see trading as meaningful at all, so if that is one of GGG's goals they have yet to meet it. However drop rates are most certainly affected by trading. You can't honestly say that orb drop rates aren't effected by the economy, thats absurd.

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trading is there for that player that grinded for 1000s of hours yet could not find the armor he wanted, so in that 1000s of hours he was able to find many other good items he can sell and save up to buy that big item.

You can easily play this game for a few thousand hours and not find many good items at all. Trading is how people get nearly anything of value. Grinding is secondary.

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BuDiu wrote:

so the problem you have is with the drop rates, not with trading correct?

so lets just give everyone any item they need to make their character better with little to no effort.

and farming can be VERY lucrative in POE. You just have to do it right.

sure you might not find a koams every run, but currency builds, and you can vendor for recipes. It builds up fast if you do it right. Dont expect to run Merci marveil 40 times and find 20 exalts and 10 koams primacy...

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BuDiu wrote:

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Jojas wrote:

And could you stop editing your post with new stuff please?

Yes, chances are you will never find a windforce or a zod. Is a windforce or a zod at the core of D2? No, it isn't. Jeez

no but items ARE at the core of d2. AND all those pixels have in common? ERMERGERDD THEY ARE ITEMSS!!! OMGGGG

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miljan wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

so the problem you have is with the drop rates, not with trading correct?

so lets just give everyone any item they need to make their character better with little to no effort.

and farming can be VERY lucrative in POE. You just have to do it right.

sure you might not find a koams every run, but currency builds, and you can vendor for recipes. It builds up fast if you do it right. Dont expect to run Merci marveil 40 times and find 20 exalts and 10 koams primacy...

Having problem with drop rates means I have problem with trading and a economy. The core problem you see from crafting, drop rates, map progression are all there because of the economy. So my main problem is actually a economy and balance around it

No, lets not give anyone items they need and make them farm for them for 10x time more than any other arpg game or better let make the game korean MMO farm fest, that is what people like

PoE drop rates compared to any other game out there are just bad. I want drop rates to be like in other arpg games, and not like a free korean MMO. But they never will be like other arpg games, because other arpog games where not build around a economy.

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BuDiu wrote:

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Jojas wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

Regarding NPC trading we can drop this subject because it was just a point that trading is a core part of all ARPGS and you seem to have understood that at least.

If you cut that silly "core" you would actually be right. But you don't want to say that in D2, when you sold all your junk for gold and used that gold to gamble and just maybe hit the jackpot and get the unique that you were looking for, that this was a "core mechanic"?

Or in any other arpg? D1, D2, Nox, Sacred, Torchlight, Titan Quest etc., trading was always possible but it never was a core mechanic. Because, and here's the thing: You could do away with it and nothing would have really changed.

But do away with trading in D3 (pre Loot 2.0) and it really hits the game bad. Same with PoE.

And regarding a previous post of yours: WoW is not an ARPG. Do you even know what that is, an ARPG?

so items were not a core part of D2? because you can clear to baal hell naked if you didnt know.

just because you can go by without something does not mean what you are saying.

i can play wow without raiding and pvping. does that make those 2 aspects NOT CORE MECHANICS? no...

ARPG stands for ACTION RPG.

sub-genre of role-playing video games that incorporate elements of action or action-adventure games, emphasizing real-time action where the player has direct control over characters, instead of turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use combat systems similar to hack and slash

you telling me, wow is not hack and slack like, it does not have real time action with players having direct controll of their character, INSTEAD OF TURN-BASED OR MENU BASED. wow is EXACTLY that and some more AKA MASSIVE ONLINE MULTIPLIER

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But that is a monster that knows no bounds and the problem is deeply rooted in societies way of life. Paying to win is a mindset

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BuDiu wrote:

drop rates of what? exalted / eternal and the godly end game items... thats where the lottery drop rates are at. And for a good reason. If they were high rates, what you and me both dont want to happen would happen. Game will be monochrome with everyone walking in the best gear with little to no effort. Drop rates for everything else seems fine with me.

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Jojas wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

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Jojas wrote:

And could you stop editing your post with new stuff please?

Yes, chances are you will never find a windforce or a zod. Is a windforce or a zod at the core of D2? No, it isn't. Jeez

no but items ARE at the core of d2. AND all those pixels have in common? ERMERGERDD THEY ARE ITEMSS!!! OMGGGG

Exactly, items are the core. Not trading. And this is the huge difference between really old-school ARPGs and D3 and PoE. In D2 etc. you get drops from which you could make builds.
In D3 you got shit drops, forget about D3.

In PoE playing for drops is not enough. You need to have currency. Lots of it. Because one build-enabling drop needs other gear to compliment it. And all the gear has to be socketed and linked and must have the right colour and occasionally gems that you don't get from quests. So unless you are a diehard grinder playing for hundereds of hours, forget about it.
Or trade. A true core mechanic, because without it huge chunks of the game are not accessible for you.

And regarding WoW: Yes, some mechanics are similar. Others are not. In ARPGs the emphasis is on action. You have to change your position much more often, actions appear to be in real time to which you can react, i.e. you can actually move away from hits and get no damage (unless you play D3). And you don't have to play in groups and fulfill different roles to master content, and all the other stuff that makes up MMOs and MMORPGs.
This is a difference of genre. Of course, all RPGs share some similarites, but please stop calling WoW an ARPG, you only make a fool of yourself.

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BuDiu wrote:

Wow is an MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG. MMORPG. Wow is ALSO a Action based RPG. This was discussed a long time ago on MMO-CHAMPION. Wow you have to change your position all of the time. Actually in fact Poe is much more of a tank and spank game overall. Wow you HAVE to move away much more often from things that would kill you otherwise specially in dungeons. When you bring up playing in groups that's where wow distances itself from poe because its an MMO. But having massive groups does not take away from the meaning of an ARPG. It just adds the MMO to its description.

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miljan wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

drop rates of what? exalted / eternal and the godly end game items... thats where the lottery drop rates are at. And for a good reason. If they were high rates, what you and me both dont want to happen would happen. Game will be monochrome with everyone walking in the best gear with little to no effort. Drop rates for everything else seems fine with me.

Umm, did you read my post at all? Godly end game items? Read my post again, read it 10 times if you need to understand things. The problem with drop rates are from low level uniques to currency and maps to other things

Yee it seems fine for you, but not to so many other people, and there is a reason people are calling PoE a trading simulator.

What you want and what I want are two different things. You may like to trade or farm like a korean MMO, but most people dont.