Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

But it does impact the others, it makes grouping harder in other leagues.

Why?

...because the more sub-communities there are, the smaller each sub-community becomes.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

But it does impact the others, it makes grouping harder in other leagues.

Why?

...because the more sub-communities there are, the smaller each sub-community becomes.

As a lot of the people who wish for SFL play solo, the impact on partying in the existing leagues will be negligible, at best. You're probably better off campaigning against the introduction of new short-term/paid leagues, rather than SFL.

Edit: Typo.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

...because the more sub-communities there are, the smaller each sub-community becomes.

Non sense?
If they already play alone, why is it harder?

EDIT - Kellog came before me :P

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Kellog wrote:

As a lot of the people who wish for SFL play solo

As I've said before: who wishes to play in such a league, prior to its creation, is utterly irrelevant. Who chooses to play in such a league after its announcement — that's what matters. You're having utopian visions of a change that simply benefits you, and you're not thinking of it as an actual real-world problem and its possible ramifications.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Kellog wrote:

As a lot of the people who wish for SFL play solo

As I've said before: who wishes to play in such a league is utterly irrelevant. Who chooses to play in such a league after it's announcement — that's what matters. You're having utopian visions of a change that simply benefits you, and you're not thinking of it as an actual real-world problem and its possible ramifications.

If you say so. Quite frankly, I think you're being a drama queen.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You're having utopian visions of a change that simply benefits you, and you're not thinking of it as an actual real-world problem and its possible ramifications.

And as usual you are posting your vision of a cataclysmic end of the world if anybody suggests something that you personally don't like.

I suspect your entrenched views and continued demands that this never happens, even for a short temp league, is due to either, worry about being proved wrong, or loss of the potential infrequent buyer for highly marked up trade items.

The request is for a temp league, not permanent league yet. Surely you would love the idea of this so you can sit back and say "told you so" if proved right, and being only temp then everything will be back to just what you want once it finishes.

I wonder if GGG continued ignoring of this is due to worry that they might be wrong, and their precious economy is actually not enjoyed by the majority of players.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

actual real-world problem

This is a computer game and not the real-world... It doesn't work the same.

Scrotie thought loot options was the end of the world as well.

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Jaknet wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You're having utopian visions of a change that simply benefits you, and you're not thinking of it as an actual real-world problem and its possible ramifications.

And as usual you are posting your vision of a cataclysmic end of the world if anybody suggests something that you personally don't like.

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iamstryker wrote:

Scrotie thought loot options was the end of the world as well.

Perhaps we're both engaged in too much hyperbole; "utopian" is a strong word, so is "cataclysmic," and neither are appropriate to the situation. I apologize for my role in such exaggeration.

Here's the truth:

1. Loot options were not really a step forward, nor a step backward, but a step to the side, why by some trigonometric logic means it's a partial step backward due to a longer hypotenuse. What I mean by that is: it discourages fixing the SA system to partially discourage ninja behavior, without going so far as making it impossible and thus removing loot tension completely. I'll even admit that the old, forced-into-SA system was worse than the current system; it's when you remove it from a false dichotomy and look at all the various possibilities that you see that we're now further from achieving the ideal.

2. A Self-Found league would be a very similar thing: not so much a step backward, but a step to the side, which would never end up proceeding forward.

3. Neither of these is "cataclysmic;" actually, they would both be rather livable. Hell, Fourist's vision of a self-found league might even be a good thing. Instead, the proper term for both is "slight downgrades."

4. GGG's small staff has enough issues on its plate already, and shouldn't be working on changes that would make the game worse, even if only slightly. Actually, if they want to succeed, they actually have to dismiss things which would make the game slightly better. They don't have time for slightly better, only for drastically better. There are opportunities for drastic improvement in trading vs crafting balance, but SFL is not one of them; it would just be a quick cover-up patch that leaves the core issues (in Standard and Anarchy leagues) unaddressed.

By the way... point number 4? Definitely a real-world problem.

I'm going to quote someone from a different thread, because I think it's appropriate.

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Renahud wrote:

The thing is, you cannot craft in this game without trading, but a lot of people would see crafting as an alternative to trading.

Right now, you do better in this game being good trader than good player.

I care nothing for competition, races, ladders, etc.

I want slow but steady, constant progress.

Give me a self-found league with quadruple drop rates, crafting chances and NO XP loss.

No. Backwards. Progress.

As it is, neither I, nor the friends who I brought to this game have logged in in over a month.

Why? The wall. You get to a point where you can play for hours and be no further ahead at all. In fact, you can be worse off than when you started. This is anathema to fun.

I guess I will check back in another month to see if anything has changed.

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TheSwampDog wrote:

I care nothing for competition, races, ladders, etc.

I want slow but steady, constant progress.

Props for this^.

I've uttered those words so many times.

You'll understand when I say, it's why we play progression games, we know the game is to progress, not stagnate and not instant grats.

But as astonishing as it might seem to those who realise this, the majority of gamers today and indeed developers go by [to quote Bashiok of Blizz] "obviously everyone wants the best gear possible, as soon as possible". Thus, the journey is merely an obstacle and the method irrelevant in anything else but its speed.

Shame.