Zombie´s suck since latest Patch - 135% resists... Endgame Summoner screwed. Help us Pls

yeah MI is invaluable mid to end game tool for summoners. until you get spectres to be powerful to wipe out packs with ease, your main source of damage will be zombies+MI.

but past something like merciless solaris, you can get sentinels for spectres that will rape everything with right supports. then it becomes a game of 'protect your precious DPS machines' and MI is counterproductive. of course, that's if one wants to follow the path of spectres being the main damage dealers.

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Elynole wrote:

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kamoa wrote:

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Honestly, I think you're having a hard time with Act 3 Merc because you don't have Minion Instability. I have never NOT used Minion Instability on one of my summoners, so I can't say for certain how easy it makes it - but Act 3 Merc is a check on your build to see if you can handle splash AoE damage. Minion Instability takes care of that splash AoE damage until you can get your summons beefed up enough for Act 3 to be trivial.

You can also counter this by having a 5 or 6 linked Spectre, I heard but yeah. I rush MI and get it by level 27 when playing a new summoner. I totally skip everything except some mana regen prior to that.

Currently, I'm working on a way to alleviate large AoE crowds by building a Poison Arrow + Minion Instability spec, so far so good but it's too early to tell.

Also, I would try and Alch or Chaos a +1/+2 to Minion Gems Level on your helm as soon as possible.

Hey thanks for the tips, I heard MI is a must have later in maps, I actually removed minion instability in act 3 merciless because of the serpent projectile and the carrion queeens. They were absolutely destroying my zombies and it's was much easier then because it puts me in great danger to lose zombies too fast when they already die VERY fast. :D I was already thinking of removing it in dock cruel because of the dogs. The AOE damage of the zombies right now is really low compared to fireball and abysmal compared to firetrap, and it's mana costly really hard to go back to MI. :/ I am approaching Lunaris Temple so I'll surely give it a try again.

I would love to get a 5-6L but an ok 5L is 20 chaos on onslaught which is all I have and I am not sure I want to spend all my currency for my summoner ( I already spent too much for meh results ). I want to level a new dual claw shadow so badly.


ps: You try poison arrow spectres, faster attacks, multistrike, life leech, GMP ? :p

Minions aren't affected by the -60% from Merciless? o_0

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kamoa wrote:

Hey thanks for the tips, I heard MI is a must have later in maps

not at all. if you focus on spectres, MI is almost useless in maps.
when your spectres can mow down most map bosses in under 10 seconds who needs MI ?

also zombie damage starts to scale well at high level of the gem, provided you took some minion damage passives. granted, it will never reach the level of DPS you can reach with spectres, but still.

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kamoa wrote:

Hey thanks for the tips, I heard MI is a must have later in maps, I actually removed minion instability in act 3 merciless because of the serpent projectile and the carrion queeens. They were absolutely destroying my zombies and it's was much easier then because it puts me in great danger to lose zombies too fast when they already die VERY fast. :D I was already thinking of removing it in dock cruel because of the dogs. The AOE damage of the zombies right now is really low compared to fireball and abysmal compared to firetrap, and it's mana costly really hard to go back to MI. :/ I am approaching Lunaris Temple so I'll surely give it a try again.

I would love to get a 5-6L but an ok 5L is 20 chaos on onslaught which is all I have and I am not sure I want to spend all my currency for my summoner ( I already spent too much for meh results ). I want to level a new dual claw shadow so badly.


ps: You try poison arrow spectres, faster attacks, multistrike, life leech, GMP ? :p

MI works with skeletons as well, for serpents and carrion queens - try to get out of line of sight of their attacks but still close enough to spam cast skeletons on top of them - this is easily done in the slums with all the corners and such that it has. If the skeletons are close enough, they'll blow up and easily kill these.

My Playstyle:

Disclaimer: This is based on what I've experienced playing a summoner, and the correct way to play one based on the way it "feels".

So some notes. Zombies tend to aggro mobs prior to even hitting them, much as if they have an aggro aura. Skeletons do not - skeletons need to attack the mob prior to gaining any aggro.

Summoners are a great build due to the low gear investments in early and mid game, and due to the low skill tree investments overall - allowing for you to pick up and gear towards defense for your character and resource management.

High level summoners use a ton of mana in my experience, gearing towards lots of mana regeneration I feel is a necessity. Especially if you plan on running multiple auras to buff your minions. As an example my main has around 1,500 mana with around 165 mana regen per second.

Energy Shield Recovery is also very valuable if going CI, I think mine is around 1900 per second with 5.5k ES.

Due to zombies tending to aggro way before even attacking a monster, my plan of attack when meeting a mob is based on casting skeletons on top of the mob, and sitting back with my zombies near me, so that they don't aggro the mob ahead of me. I do this so that I continue to have 360 degree protection of myself for any strays that come along - the zombies can pick them up, and the spectres and skeletons can continue to kill off the pack.

I do not focus on spectre as my main DPS, my main DPS comes from Minion Instability. There's a reason for this. Spectres become rather useless in indoor maps due to pathing AI, while Minion Instability shines. You can continue to spam cast skeletons in rooms without even having to walk into the room, thus taking yourself out of danger, and letting the damage of the mobs do the rest to initiate MI. You can clear whole rooms in a matter of seconds by doing this. Since a good majority of maps are either tight-knit cornered or indoor maps, this is especially important for late game.

AoE Splash Damage from Mobs - Again, this is a problem that many young late-game summoners have problems with. Minion Instability can again take care of this issue, as long as the summoner learns to stay out of LOS. Sometimes it's a bit tricky, sometimes you need to pull the mobs back a bit to secure a good position - but it's most doable.

With regards to AoE Splash Damage and Heavy Hitting Bosses - this was one area of summoner that I felt summoners were really weak. On my main, my attack of choice has been Freezing Pulse so that I can slow any mobs that get near me and get back behind my pack of zombies. I found though that this left me vulnerable in times when my minions were wiped clean in a matter of seconds.

Due to this, I've been experimenting with Poison Arrow. Yes, I'm walking around with a bow and a quiver currently and I, myself, place the poison arrows in strategic locations during the fight. This also helps with splash damage AoE and heavy hitting bosses. Since Poison Arrow really only requires the gem to level for it's DPS, and no gear changes or heavy support gems it makes the perfect combination to add into my summoner build. It allows me to fire once and get behind cover to recast my minions while the mobs continue to soak and melt in the poison clouds.

My playstyle clears a bit slower, but at the added advantage of not dying. In HC, well YOLO - and late game Standard league - 15% of your current XP on the level is something you never want to have to redo again, it could be days of farming.

And that's all I can think of at the moment.

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Disclaimer: This is based on what I've experienced playing a summoner, and the correct way to play one based on the way it "feels".

there is no 'correct way' to play anything....

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grepman wrote:

there is no 'correct way' to play anything....

If there's no correct way.

Then there's no wrong way.

Which means every way is correct.

Which makes my statement still true.

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Elynole wrote:

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grepman wrote:

there is no 'correct way' to play anything....

If there's no correct way.

Then there's no wrong way.

Which means every way is correct.

Which makes my statement still true.

eh....I guess, fair enough :)

also I think that you are overexaggerating the number of indoor maps difficult for spectres.

spectres only have problems in extreme maze-type map tilesets. ie pyramid, crematorium, prison and maybe submerged passage and catacombs tilesets

for vast majority of maps they're fine.

for 70+ maps, this means only torture chamber, mine, cells and maze, maybe underground river and underground sea

6 maps out of 28.

for 66-70 maps. arsenal (worst map ever), vaal pyramid, dungeon, overgrown shrine/ruin, maybe tunnel

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Elynole wrote:

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grepman wrote:

there is no 'correct way' to play anything....

If there's no correct way.

Then there's no wrong way.

Which means every way is correct.

Which makes my statement still true.

Incorrect, if there is no correct way and as such no wrong way it means that every way is correct and wrong depending on an earlier random event.

Which makes your statement correct and wrong at the same time.
Reminds me of Schrödinger's cat. Well, atleast the way how you applied quantum mechanics (incorrectly) to a game.

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Vandenreich wrote:

Incorrect, if there is no correct way and as such no wrong way it means that every way is correct and wrong depending on an earlier random event.

Which makes your statement correct and wrong at the same time.
Reminds me of Schrödinger's cat. Well, atleast the way how you applied quantum mechanics (incorrectly) to a game.

My statement was never originally incorrect to begin with, because it was stated it was based on my own experiences - which deems it opinionated, and therefore wasn't stated as fact to begin with.

Either way, it's way to late to play semantics on an online forum.