Remove MF completely from game

Not sure if Hovergame is trolling or if he just really needs to "get a clue".

The difference between using MF and not using MF is way too big. This pushes people to use build that can more easily have more MF. It also makes the non-MF players more likely to use RMT as they fall so far behind the curve.
Removing MF completely is abit drastic, maybe they should just nerf all MF on items by 50% or somerhing.

Why is it wrong to ask for more loot? Is it also wrong to ask for less loot, or is that okay because it's so hardcore?

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Sickness wrote:

Not sure if Hovergame is trolling or if he just really needs to "get a clue".

The difference between using MF and not using MF is way too big. This pushes people to use build that can more easily have more MF. It also makes the non-MF players less likely to use RMT as they fall so far behind the curve.
Removing MF completely is abit drastic, maybe they should just nerf all MF on items by 50% or somerhing.

Why is it wrong to ask for more loot? Is it also wrong to ask for less loot, or is that okay because it's so hardcore?

I think I got it :
-I want some loots for being able to kill he mobs and progress. And the game is providing enough to me to progress. Mapping can be a problem, but MF doesn't give more maps.
-You want loots because someone else has it.

I guess only two words are enough : jealousy and envy. Nerf MF to the ground, and you will whine about <insert FOTM build here> gets more loots than you do.

MF is fine, just fix the builds that don't suffer from using it. Just like in D2 MF in this game sacrifices DPS and survivability. The issue here is sporkers being OP. that is all.

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SexyRob wrote:

MF is fine, just fix the builds that don't suffer from using it. Just like in D2 MF in this game sacrifices DPS and survivability. The issue here is sporkers being OP. that is all.

Low-life RF*

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Hovergame wrote:

I think I got it :
-I want some loots for being able to kill he mobs and progress. And the game is providing enough to me to progress. Mapping can be a problem, but MF doesn't give more maps.
-You want loots because someone else has it.

I guess only two words are enough : jealousy and envy. Nerf MF to the ground, and you will whine about <insert FOTM build here> gets more loots than you do.

No I really don't care what someone else have. But as long as MF exists the drop rates will be balanced with MF in mind. So with MF being as powerful as it is now I either have to be pigeon holed into a MF build or be forced to grind so much that I get sick of the game.

Your argument that becaue it will never be perfect they should not try to make it more balanced is retarded really. I am not convinced that someone intelligent enough to write a whole sentence could possibly hold that belief, so I am assuming that you are just trolling becasue you ran out of real arguments a long time ago.

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SexyRob wrote:

MF is fine, just fix the builds that don't suffer from using it. Just like in D2 MF in this game sacrifices DPS and survivability. The issue here is sporkers being OP. that is all.

This (plus previous post) is actually what I suppose is an invalid way to fix the problem, and this is the way Hovergame is afraid of for so much - as passive skill tree is so vast, there will almost always exist a build that suffers from trading effective stats for MF the least - so after nerfing sporkers, we'll come to summoners. But what next? This is realistically creating even more problems instead of solving an existing one. And this is exactly the way of crying over the new FOTM build whatever it will be.

Other way, in order to penalize MF usage it could have additional drawback (exactly as Scrotie suggested earlier in this thread, together with the point that MF should be available only on legendary items only that I personally support). But in this case we don't solve the problem at all - we are sharpening a questionable stat - and it will either be still too good to overweight it's newly created drawbacks, or it simply will not make it becoming a trash affix like thorns currently is. Both ways it will affect build choices, as new drawback will most likely promote other types of builds to become new FOTM builds, and this everlasting nerf cycle will never end.

I strongly believe the root of the problem are not specific builds, as skill tree is specifically designed to provide enormous amount of options. I still think Magic Find, while looking like a totally valid mechanics, provides unfair advantage to some builds. Passive skill tree enables you to supplement your character's play style and favorite abilities with passive bonuses that you need to play in the way you want. So, for example, when you choose a slow but hard hitting spell (like Ethereal Knives) as a main ability, you can choose to supplement it with additional cast speed from passive skill tree, or knowing it uses a lot of mana, you can get additional mana regen or go to Blood Magic etc. Why the same logic can no longer be applied to Magic Find? Back in CB, we used to have passive nodes that gave Magic Find, now they are eliminated. My guess is that these nodes are mandatory. You won't just offset your overall Magic Find with these nodes as in the case with extra mana regen or cast speed for you Ethereal Knives. You will just pick them on top of what you have no matter what. I hope this really shows how vast passive skill tree gives you options and Magic Find would actively narrow it down if Magic Find would still present in there.

Magic Find was eliminated from passive skill tree for some reasons (I suppose it's to promote build diversity, but even assuming I am totally wrong here), why blue/rare itemization can't use the same treatment for the same very reason (I may or may not grasp)? Push Magic Find even further into legendary items only zone. Legendary items should be cool and conceptually interesting. They are usually specifically designed to not be best-in-slot items but provide play ground for different non-standard niche builds. If you are really crazy for making perfect set for Magic Find, you would still be perfectly able to do exactly that but via means of legendary items with predetermined significant drawbacks that you will have to deal with. And while this solution could also be seen as half-assed, in that currently available legendary items pool will still favor some builds more than the others, this is actually much better, as adding new legendary items to the available pool in the future will definitely solve it.

Edit:

Remove it, Best Equip --> Killspeed --> More Loot
Best Equip (& more skill) --> Higher and more difficult maps --> More loot


nothing more to say

Actually have to agree with this. Like if IIR and IIQ were only on maps as bonus mods like how IIQ works now I don't think there would be an issue.

At least remove the IIQ and IIR gems, so it frees up some gem diversity.

nerf mf, it finds magic!

nerf arrows too, they flyyyyyy

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maxboo wrote:

Remove it, Best Equip --> Killspeed --> More Loot
Best Equip (& more skill) --> Higher and more difficult maps --> More loot


nothing more to say

If death is not an issue, you are correct. Unless you start counting HC play, experience penalties and using up an extra portal after dieing in a map.

Second part of your claim is overly generic and looks like it always evaluates to true in any case, as having best equipment and skill on top of that should always lead to game being basically won, or shouldn't it? I see RNG is already counted in your "maps --> loot" transition. So, this point is irrelevant to the topic, as it is true now and it will hold true if MF happens to be removed.

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Sir_LogiC wrote:

Actually have to agree with this. Like if IIR and IIQ were only on maps as bonus mods like how IIQ works now I don't think there would be an issue.

At least remove the IIQ and IIR gems, so it frees up some gem diversity.

I don't recall if we discussed gems earlier, but it looks like IR and IQ gems "eating up" gem links are exactly the same as IIQ and IIR "eating up" affixes on items.

For me personally the choice between Melee Physical Damage on Full Life and Faster Attacks is interesting. I am talking about 4-th or 5-th socket here, like in Double Strike - Melee Damage - Melee Splash - Multistrike - X. The choice is significant enough for me to consider recoloring sockets via chromatics. But when you add Item Rarity into consideration, my choice is actually trivialized as it is no longer a choice. It gives far too significant bonuses to ignore. Having Item Quantity on top of that really means I should drop something to put it in. This logic is only invalid for when I am in a party with other player having IQ and IR gems. While this looks very cool (division of labor and stuff), it actually punishes solo game play, forcing all solo players play MF character, as loot drops are based around it.

My point is that it's very cool to have support skill gems (just like item affixes) that are much better than others for some specific build. It is only bad when a support gem is better for all builds. It just means that no matter how cool or useful other support gems are, they just generally have two less sockets (because of Item Rarity and Item Quantity) to compete for. For example, Faster Casting is very good for casters (still it isn't even a no brain for casters, as there are other cool support gems to choose from), and is absolutely useless for rangers/melee, who consider usage of Faster Attacks against other cool gem choices. Item Rarity and Item Quantity are better for any build. They are essentially trading your own greed versus additional kill speed.

When you are put into competitive environment, like season racing currently does, Magic Find forces you to either play an MF build or group with a one who does. Both ways you are implicitly forced into party play. After considering party IIQ bonuses, you are even forced to play in a full party if you are aiming for a position in a top score ladder. I like competitive games. I love this game as ARPG genre promises to be finally free from necessary social activities like MMO games generally force you to do. Attending/leading Raids, setting raid schedule - thanks, I am full of it. I like competitive environment, but I don't like to be forced into partying again. Yes, probably one can say I should be playing another game, but this is definitely not the answer I want to hear. I like this game, and I feel it could be better without Magic Find - not only for me personally "because I want more loot etc" - but for everyone for the reasons I have stated many times in this thread. Mainly, because of build diversity and solo play.