Remove MF completely from game

"

Hovergame wrote:

You act like a spoiled child, you could be 12 or 60, you are acting like a kid. If your way of "communicate" is "NERF THIS, THIS IS TOO HARD", I don't need to answer like if you were an adult.

For whatever remains of this thread, you should answer people as if they are adults.
Your emotional posting is greatly hurting whatever real discussion exists here.

I wonder why one of GGG's Members used an Orb of Regret on their post here?

That is the question . . .

"

Daefecator wrote:

Do not remove desyncs from game ! This is why i am playing , and many others too...

Trolling again ? You were not making sense during the whole thread, and you are now even making less.

Assuming I make no sense again as You pretend, you are absolutely correct.

Either way, it will be really great if we could stay on topic. Yes, it's great to see you care, but I'd rather you concentrate on defeating the points I (and many others) made rather than trying to dismiss everything with random raging, provoking and trolling accusing, while doing this by yourselves. It's not that clever as you are probably assuming.

What we have now is an awesome game made by a small group of enthusiasts that nailed a lot of things pretty much in the head. Everything I suppose we all should do here is try to provide any feedback that seems feasible. While I agree I personally may definitely be incompetent in doing it, yet still I try and compile my facts about the game as I am eager to make it better. Are you eager only to prove you are somehow "better" than some people on forums? You didn't make a single valid reasoning yet even if just dismissing other opinions, still your posts never come out without grammar errors. This is disturbing.

The point I was making that while Magic Find looks like a totally valid mechanics, and even worth playing solely for that, it actually hurts more than is good. This can easily be compared to desync problem. While I realize it is a significant game problem (and I am afraid if it is not fixed or somehow masked before the game is released it can be a complete disaster for overall game popularity), after having dealt with desyncs so much time, it actually turns into a really deep mechanics. Knowing when you are about to desync, trying to guess it ahead of time - actually adds a lot of challenge to hardcore gaming experience.

Dealing with desyncs effectively definitely requires skill. You actively build to survive not only incoming damage, burst damage, but you also build to survive desyncs. And in this case while fixing a glaring problem, a significant portion of challenge will also be removed from the game (and possibly for good). Magic Find is very similar but it is absolutely the other way around - it looks like completely valid mechanics, while in essence it is only the matter of learning. Once you grasped game basics, and had some rather long-term experience playing, it becomes clear (aside from primitive desire to get more loot), that Magic Find is simply the way to go. And while making the most effective build your choices become artificially limited.

Currently the game overrewards MF builds and overpunishes melee characters via desyncs (note, I don't say the game doesn't reward non-MF builds or desyncs do not punish ranged characters), and while you may think, that removing looks-all-right MF mechanics can simlify the game, fixing an obvious desync problem will definitely simplify the game far much more. You seemed to miss this point completely dismissing that as trolling. And while you seem to bring only destruction to this topic, you actually helped me understand I need to explain my point better. Hope it is more clear now.

"

I wonder why one of GGG's Members used an Orb of Regret on their post here?

Because they know that everytime they implement a new patch with uniqes, the uniqe-item-thread is hammered with "F5" and MF-chars beeing "held hostage" to work overtime again.

Ok, let's show how Daefecator destroyed the thread :

"

Magic Find is a very controversial stat. This is a gear grinding game, not gear selling game. Because when you find really top gear pieces - you can't use them, unless they have IIQ and/or IIR thus *not* effectively being top gear pieces anymore... Or you can, but you will get no further decent drops.

"

It's not about making something less gear dependent, it's about making it more dependent on gear that helps you actually play the game, and not helping you profit of of it more. This is all about playing the game more, and less using RMT.

RMT ? what was he talking about ?

"

But if we leave D3 bashing for just a second, it becomes clear, that after paragon levels were added, the game actually become better.

Who cares about D3, who lost millions of players ?

"

After MF is no more, the game will be changed into finding perfect balance between survivability and kill speed - exactly what ARPGs are about - to find best items assuming content is be properly balanced around solo play as well as group play.

Solo play now ? I don't understand the link between solo play and MF ....

"

Ok, but also a small mistake: it was easy to cap resists. Along with nerfing hp nodes resist keystones were nerfed as well, so it is no longer the case. Also you don't need to constantly swear at all as this doesn't add any weight to your words at all.

As if we have hard times to cap our resists now .....

"

MF kills build diversity, is a dull redundant mechanic and should be either reworked or removed for good....
total elimination of MF will be the step in the right direction to help diversify builds for this game.

Build diversity now ? Well, I stopped to try understanding. but let's continue, he's probably just wanting more loots.

"

It's not like I don't want loot at all. But I definitely do not want more. All legendaries must be rare, it's not even a question.

If magic find is removed and drops are even lowered than they are now for 0 magic find, I will find that fair...

P.s.: While I was typing this, lots of fresh posts added... I would also prefer no rebalancing of drops. Every league economics gets trashed with items found by MF'ers.

Oh, he says he doesn't :) But his last sentence doesn't even make sense.

"

Without MF right now you will either be undergeared (and lose HC char) or having no more maps to do. Removing MF will not guarantee noone will ever get any drop.

Summary : less loot to help the ones without gear and no more map. I love his logic.

"

Edit: I was using alch&go strategy + have troubles actually finding alchemies. At that point in the game I was sinking in fusings, but it was pretty hard to trade them for alchemies.

"I don't want more orbs drop but remove MF to help me finding more orbs".

"

Your previous posts about only chisel/alch a map is correct, and this was what I was doing by myself. I ran out of maps entirely, I grinded 80% of my last (87) level grinding 67-68 maps exclusively. This is not fun at all. I suppose MF as mechanics just holds specs back and forces group play.

Maps and MF, again.

"

These drops are not enough without magic find, and you lack currency to maintain a pool of maps. And there is never a point to try to do higher level maps without MF. 1-2 rare items for the whole map is really disappointing.

The drops are not enough, remove MF ! Very logicial, isn't it ?

"

The game would become even more hardcore, and I like it. I know fo sure I would never be able to maintain even level 68+ maps, but neither will anyone else.

Jealousy. I finally understood something about him.

Nice recap. I wanted to do something like that, thanks for doing it for me, actually.

So, removing Magic Find will

- promote fair play as opposed to farming with specific specs => everyone will have equal chance of having loot => less necessity to buy loot from farmers => less RMT trade => win

- allow players to enjoy playing in the way they like, be it solo, duoing with a friend or running a small group of friends without committing themselves to specific specs

- actually promote build diversity, as build choice will be based purely on what you actually want to play, and not on how badly you want loot so you will commit yourself to play farm specs, thus trading game enjoyment for loot

- probably require loot handling rebalance, but I personally would prefer it stay just the way it is right now with 0% quantity and quality, making the game harder with less loot (other players' views on the matter divided)

- affect map sustaining via orb drops (entirely different topic, but it was hard to ignore it in current thread).


So, currently these were definitely the points to discuss. You know are playing an unfair trick here, as if whenever anyone wants to show your own influence to this topic, the result will be an even more overall thread destruction, as there wasn't anything constructive at all. By the way, I am totally ok with you bashing me, but do I really worth your time wasted?

I want to play the great game (as possibly You do too, but feel free to go on bashing), and if I have an issue with it, I say about it. And it's not like I am the only one who voices the same concerns. I don't ask for unreasonable buffs, I am still sure Magic Find is ultimately bad, as it affects the game's primary reward mechanism. Removing it will justify any other choice the game invites to make as significant which are now rather moot. For the exact same reason Magic Find passive keystones were removed from passive tree.

You say who cares about D3 solely because it lost many players? I totally do, because dismissing mistakes others have made is not clever in any way. I want this game to be tons better, because it's actually tons better to begin with! Listening to feedback is crucial no matter what. Actual changes that developers make to the game should be based solely on what that feedback is reflected onto in their mind. The points I make here are actually much broader than simply removing MF. From my point of view, it could fix many problems. But that doesn't in any form imply that I will be satisfied when and only when MF is removed. I am not throwing tantrums, as I perfectly understand, that developers may be busy solving other more important problems, but all this info should be somehow brought to them. They may have come out with an alternative solution that will be significantly better. The only thing I strongly disagree with you is about removing MF is simplifying the game just because fixing desyncs is also simplifying the game.

"

- probably require loot handling rebalance, but I personally would prefer it stay just the way it is right now with 0% quantity and quality, making the game harder with less loot (other players' views on the matter divided)

- affect map sustaining via orb drops (entirely different topic, but it was hard to ignore it in current thread).

Again, you're not making any sense.


Edit : I have some free time, let's check your points one by one.

"

- promote fair play as opposed to farming with specific specs => everyone will have equal chance of having loot => less necessity to buy loot from farmers => less RMT trade => win

Are you serious ? Do you really believe that RMT is about farming with a high end build with MF ? Are you so clueless ?

"

- allow players to enjoy playing in the way they like, be it solo, duoing with a friend or running a small group of friends without committing themselves to specific specs

That's already the case, unless you're talking about optimal play, and MF or not, it will not change and people will complain about the FOTM builds.

"

- actually promote build diversity, as build choice will be based purely on what you actually want to play, and not on how badly you want loot so you will commit yourself to play farm specs, thus trading game enjoyment for loot

Really, I wonder why some folks are playing a game if they don't play what they like. And, again, if you're looking about optimal play, MF or not it will not change.

"

- probably require loot handling rebalance, but I personally would prefer it stay just the way it is right now with 0% quantity and quality, making the game harder with less loot (other players' views on the matter divided)

Of course, you're hiding your "I WANT MORE LOOTS !". Back to your previous points :
-Less loots for some builds and unchanged for the rest => Less trades => more RMT.

"

- affect map sustaining via orb drops (entirely different topic, but it was hard to ignore it in current thread).

But you still canot hide totaly your "MORE LOOTS PLZ".

It is close to impossible to try to lead a constructive discussion with you, when you back up your reasonings with your never changing "Are you clueless?" claims. Have you ever asked yourself this very question you put into pretty much every second post of yours?

I've found a grand total of one point, where you got me completely wrong. Other points are your personal opinion you're pretty much entitled to.

"

Hovergame wrote:

Back to your previous points : -Less loots for some builds and unchanged for the rest => Less trades => more RMT.

I may have possibly not stressed this enough for you, but I actually want equal base loot chances for everyone. If you (like me) want more loot, you should aim to kill more monsters per unit time, more effectively. Builds that differ in survivability, damage, movement speed and other characteristics are great to me. These are exactly the attributes you work with while playing the game. The game rewards you via loot. Having an attribute in a game that directly affects game rewards is easily the best, isn't it obvious? It explicitly trumps all other attributes.

As for RMT specifically, currently MF builds provide a very fertile soil for items/orbs farming and selling them illegally to other non-MF builds via means of third-party sites. If MF is no more, everyone will be on equal footing, meaning there will be sane demand on good items. Right now MF makes additional artificial demand on items.

Corrected version of my point still reads like "(less or more) loot for every build => everyone will have equal chance of having loot => less necessity to buy loot from farmers => less RMT trade => win".

By the way, you make it sound like wanting more loot is bad. This may shock you, but reward is actually the reason most players do play games. And while you are still talking to me, can I please ask you to stop inserting spaces before punctuation marks? I respect your local culture whatever it is, but seeing this really makes my eyes hurt as it is a mistake in English according to Wikipedia. Thanks.

"

As for RMT specifically, currently MF builds provide a very fertile soil for items/orbs farming and selling them illegally to other non-MF builds via means of third-party sites. If MF is no more, everyone will be on equal footing, meaning there will be sane demand on good items. Right now MF makes additional artificial demand on items.

Where the heck are you living ? The Moon ? Mars ? You're saying that MF, by adding the supply, increase the demand. What the hell is wrong with you ?

Seriously, someone saying "low drops = less RMT" is either stupid, or without any clue. Why do you think we talk about P2W korean farming games ? Just because you have to choice between farming during hundred of hours to get an item, or buy it for 10 bucks on a site. And you're telling us to copy that situation.

Please, don't mention RMT, supply or demand before you learned the basics of economy. And, AGAIN, for currency drop, MF has nothing to do. Six level 5 bots farming the ledge with 0 MF will drop more exalteds than a level 80 farmer in the Docks with 100/400.

And again, please, get a clue about what you're talking about before posting. I'm tired of people posting what they think as truth before even checking. The basics in economy tells us that by cutting the income of some people will not lessen the criminality. By cutting some salaries by half, you will not reduce the number of thieves. By removing a way of getting 10 fusings/hour for a "legit" player farming a low level boss, you will not lessen the number of illegal transactions, you will even force someplayers to buy fusings on RMT sites to link their chest.

"

Corrected version of my point still reads like "(less or more) loot for every build => everyone will have equal chance of having loot => less necessity to buy loot from farmers => less RMT trade => win".

Corrected version should be less loot for every build => the fastest build will have more loot => more necessity to buy loot from farmers => more RMT => lost.

"

By the way, you make it sound like wanting more loot is bad. This may shock you, but reward is actually the reason most players do play games.

Congratulations for that flawed logic ! GGG, please, give me a full set of uniques + a perfect set of rares for killing Merciless Piety please.

"

And while you are still talking to me, can I please ask you to stop inserting spaces before punctuation marks? I respect your local culture whatever it is, but seeing this really makes my eyes hurt as it is a mistake in English according to Wikipedia. Thanks.

You can ask, but I won't.