Remove MF completely from game

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Daefecator wrote:

What level are you, 81? I would like to read your comment as soon as you hit at least 87 please. This is the exact point when even 68-69 maps start to give negligible amounts of experience, and you will see that even sustaining 70's maps is an issue for soloing without stacked Magic Find.

From the way your posts look like, it seems there is something wrong with either your shift or caps lock button, can you confirm they are ok? By the way, you've already shown us that you are an overly educated person, and now you are arguing about Magic Find to not affect any currency drop at all in your opinion?

Sorry to have switched to Onslaught and virtually stopped playing my HC chars. And, as pointed before, MF has no effect on map drops and you got an answer.

@WUlf1337 : I don't have that taste. I dunno, if I need currencies, I can farm Cruel Merveil for about an hour and get 10 fusings. I don't know how many runs you need to get 10 fusings equiv, but at least I feel a lot safer.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

Basing your argument on high level play? When the game is incomplete, and not geared towards high level play. Cool. Awesome. Legit.

Also, MF has no bearing on map sustainability (as in map drops), the argument of map rolling for optimal mods (and becoming broke doing so) is an entirely different discussion.

As we are in beta, any feedback that is about beta is legit. If I could predict future, my opinion could very well be different, but, apparently, I can't. And my best guess is the game is specifically designed to require significant time for leveling to the maximum level. It's the essence of ARPG genre.

As for rolling maps towards some of the affixes is probably really another topic. But as this "rolling" is done via orbs which drop depending on Magic Find - this part is relevant to this discussion.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

What level are you, 81? I would like to read your comment as soon as you hit at least 87 please. This is the exact point when even 68-69 maps start to give negligible amounts of experience, and you will see that even sustaining 70's maps is an issue for soloing without stacked Magic Find.

From the way your posts look like, it seems there is something wrong with either your shift or caps lock button, can you confirm they are ok? By the way, you've already shown us that you are an overly educated person, and now you are arguing about Magic Find to not affect any currency drop at all in your opinion?

Basing your argument on high level play? When the game is incomplete, and not geared towards high level play. Cool. Awesome. Legit.

Also, MF has no bearing on map sustainability (as in map drops), the argument of map rolling for optimal mods (and becoming broke doing so) is an entirely different discussion.

MF absolutely affects map sustainability. You have to have currency to roll good maps. You get that currency through MF. If you aren't running MF, you WILL go broke. The economy is so bad in Standard that my income is nothing but vendored rares. Selling items that are below godly status is near impossible. I've actually started a dual sporker on Onslaught to farm currency with and trade for Standard currency.

" You get that currency through MF." - Wait currency is considered to be a magic item?

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DoubleU wrote:

" You get that currency through MF." - Wait currency is considered to be a magic item?

No, it's not. But you will not find enough currency to roll maps unless you use MF to find items which you can then trade for currency or vendor for currency. I'm almost to the point of picking up every blue item in addition to rares and making 10-20 trips to the vendor to farm alts which I can trade for chaos/alchs. And I'm level 87 lol

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big_aug wrote:

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

What level are you, 81? I would like to read your comment as soon as you hit at least 87 please. This is the exact point when even 68-69 maps start to give negligible amounts of experience, and you will see that even sustaining 70's maps is an issue for soloing without stacked Magic Find.

From the way your posts look like, it seems there is something wrong with either your shift or caps lock button, can you confirm they are ok? By the way, you've already shown us that you are an overly educated person, and now you are arguing about Magic Find to not affect any currency drop at all in your opinion?

Basing your argument on high level play? When the game is incomplete, and not geared towards high level play. Cool. Awesome. Legit.

Also, MF has no bearing on map sustainability (as in map drops), the argument of map rolling for optimal mods (and becoming broke doing so) is an entirely different discussion.

MF absolutely affects map sustainability. You have to have currency to roll good maps. You get that currency through MF. If you aren't running MF, you WILL go broke. The economy is so bad in Standard that my income is nothing but vendored rares. Selling items that are below godly status is near impossible. I've actually started a dual sporker on Onslaught to farm currency with and trade for Standard currency.

This is not true at all. Map sustainability revolves around selling 77s you find and using that to recoup the losses from going running 72-77 or from the occasional good rare that drop. The vendor shards you get from rare is such a marginal gain.

This is based on the assumption that you are working closely with a few others using a shared currency pool. For the past 3 or so months I have been able to map 72-77 with no net loss to myself or anyone else in my team. Teamwork, smart map rolling, savvy but not shady trading and persistence will always put you ahead of the rng in the long run.

However, for players just starting out you will need a decent currency investment to get started and a team actually capable of doing high level content but this is in line with the character progression present in just about any arpg.


The issue may not be the system in place but rather the ratio of time investment vs currency gain being out of whack.

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Nephalim wrote:

The issue may not be the system in place but rather the ratio of time investment vs currency gain being out of whack.

Here's the real issue: When your DPS increases 20%, your loot per unit time doesn't quite increase 20% (because movespeed isn't increased) and your loot per map doesn't increase at all. So a single percentage point of IIQ is noticeably better than a single point of overall universally-works-on-all-builds DPS increase, and for the most part it stacks multiplicatively. Toss in reflected damage, and you have an overwhelming incentive to neglect DPS output almost entirely until your MF affixes are maxed out.

This is the essence of overpowered.

If you play softcore I'm sorry. If you play hardcore there is a trade-off between how much IIR and IIQ you can use vs other stats. There is also a trade-off between movement speed that should be considered. Your dmg, your survival, your resists, adding IIR and IIQ adds another factor to balance and makes the game more interesting...on hardcore that is...sorry for those of you on softcore :P

Getting rid of mf mods would be an epic mistake as lots of people enjoy them.

That is all.

@TEBird: Lots of people would enjoy an overpowered affix. That's like saying lots of people enjoyed CB Lightning Arrow. People like hilariously OP things; that doesn't mean they should be easily attainable.

Let me reiterate that I only want to remove MF mods on rares. Having some OP in the game is good, but I think IIQ at least should be reserved for uniques, as well as being better balanced to ensure said uniques are not unquestionably best-in-slot.

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Hovergame wrote:

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The only awesome thing about MF builds is that they get five times more loot than other builds with the same amount of effort. I don't even know what the point of your statement was...

Don't throw random numbers please. They will NEVER DROP (I said DROP) five times more currencies. Imho, I wonder if they even DROP more currency/time at all. Then we have rares and uniques, and most of them are just trash if you are in a lower level area. But, again, we have the "pros" like you telling us how they farm as fast as anybody else (which isn't true, a LA ranger will clean the map faster, a discharage will clean it faster too), in areas around their level (which is also usually false) and whine about "balancing" the loots.

They get more loot/time ? COOL ! I level A LOT faster. Yes I do.

Did I say drop? No I just checked it definitely says they get. Did I say currency? No I just checked I definitely said loot. With 100% quantity and 200% rarity you can tell me how much more loot a MF build gets compared to base.

Never used the word pro either but maybe I misinterpreted your quote symbols. All that super useful maths has pushed some comprehension outa your brain.