Remove MF completely from game

I'll ask a related question here, rather than start a new thread.

Do IIQ/IIR suffer diminishing returns?
If so, what is the equation?
If not, why not?

I have to disagree. MF is an intrinsic property to this (and any other ARPG I've played) game. As someone said earlier, it's all about choices. You can try for a max kill speed character (and I'd get bored to "beat" the game quickly with a no-choice build that would likely result). Or, you could go high/max IIQ/IIR and "farm magic items" for yourself and your alts. Or, you could do what I suspect 90% or better of the population does, and build a balanced character with a modest amount of IIR/IIQ and attack/defense.

I believe this mechanic is pretty close to perfect as it is. with 6 suffix/prefixes on all items, there are plenty of options for gear which include MF and non-MF choices.

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Castinar wrote:

I have to disagree. MF is an intrinsic property to this (and any other ARPG I've played) game. As someone said earlier, it's all about choices.

For some reason people think this means "this is about offering unlimited choice," to which I reply: no, it's not. It's about offering enjoyable choices. An ice cream parlor gains nothing by offering Mexican salsa as a sundae topping, and a pizzeria gains nothing by allowing patrons to add chocolate to their pies. Obviously the case isn't as extreme here, but more choice is not always better.

Saying an "MF character" is a valid build choice unto itself ignores the concept of a "high PvE killspeed character," which essentially does the same thing if it works: makes a lot of loot drop per unit time. There are two things that define a build, its function and its flavor; the means used to get there are only relevant to the extent which they serve those two ends. Therefore the only difference between a MF character and a PvE character is flavor.

Here are reasons why the MF choice shouldn't be offered very often:

• Numerous other mods already achieve same results. More attack speed, kill faster, get loot faster. More movespeed, less time between packs, get loot faster. Et cetera. Thus other options can completely subsume the same functions (leaving only flavor as justification).
• Encourages reduced difficulty. This one here is a game-killer. The fun-seeker in everyone says to go after the most challenging, engaging content one can handle (with "handle" meaning different things in HC and SC). The cold, calculating min-maxer, on the other hand, says to farm the area you can stack the most MF and get the best speeds in. MF creates a dissonance between these two voices, where the game design should be doing everything it can to eliminate dissonance and create harmony. I could go on about this for pages but I think this sums it up.
• Less skill-based/engaging than speed-based farming acceleration. If you're decked out to really speed-run some content, it takes a good deal of attention, because you're zooming through the content like a Formula One car and having to watch out for all the turns. MF makes no such demands on your reaction time.
• Exclusively PvE affix. You're more likely to need separate PvE and PvP gear, increasing the cost of entry to PvP.

The only times MF should be offered is when you're taking on additional challenge in exchange. Map affixes are a good example of something that could happen commonly, but on uniques it's also acceptable if a drawback is included; Andvarius is kind of okay, except for the fact that gold rings probably shouldn't exist (and maybe its drawback isn't strong enough).

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Castinar wrote:

I have to disagree. MF is an intrinsic property to this (and any other ARPG I've played) game. As someone said earlier, it's all about choices. You can try for a max kill speed character (and I'd get bored to "beat" the game quickly with a no-choice build that would likely result). Or, you could go high/max IIQ/IIR and "farm magic items" for yourself and your alts. Or, you could do what I suspect 90% or better of the population does, and build a balanced character with a modest amount of IIR/IIQ and attack/defense.

I believe this mechanic is pretty close to perfect as it is. with 6 suffix/prefixes on all items, there are plenty of options for gear which include MF and non-MF choices.

/agree

Reminds me of D2. Learn a good starting character for loot finding for playing from scratch/at the start of a new reset. Then leverage its finds into other chars you want to build for fun or pwnage. I am total okay with this model.

I agree with ScrotieMcB (who Im actually debating with in another post lol) anyways.. MF should be a unique roll type item. It should not be capable of being rolled on nearly every single slot to become a desired attribute for use in manipulating market economies as has been the case in EVERY OTHER GAME which has MF. It always comes down to who can find the most gear/currency and turn it into a profit. That is not the game.. the game is about playing and having fun.

As said before.. I think it should be removed from game. Personally I dont really care about it even being on maps but to be honest I don't think its that detrimental there. Whats detrimental is that it becomes an almost mandatory stat for people to keep up with. Can't afford gear? Go get a IIR/IIQ set and farm money. Thats the WRONG ANSWER. Thats the P2W answer and this game is not about P2W. Its about playing for fun and that's why I continue to support GGG.

I dont think we have to screw mf at all but it has to be balanced more fair.
as a solo player with 0 Mf i get only whites/blues from endbosses 90%. rare bosses are even worse.
that should not happen.

nice discussion btw :)

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Bishop120 wrote:

I agree with ScrotieMcB (who Im actually debating with in another post lol) anyways.. MF should be a unique roll type item. It should not be capable of being rolled on nearly every single slot to become a desired attribute for use in manipulating market economies as has been the case in EVERY OTHER GAME which has MF. It always comes down to who can find the most gear/currency and turn it into a profit. That is not the game.. the game is about playing and having fun.

It's only that way if you play it that way. Stop coveting thy neighbours oxen, and you can be happy with what you have/find yourself. If you don't like trading, don't. It's just that simple. Who cares if someone has better gear than you, it's a PvE game.

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Bishop120 wrote:

As said before.. I think it should be removed from game. Personally I dont really care about it even being on maps but to be honest I don't think its that detrimental there. Whats detrimental is that it becomes an almost mandatory stat for people to keep up with. Can't afford gear? Go get a IIR/IIQ set and farm money. Thats the WRONG ANSWER. Thats the P2W answer and this game is not about P2W. Its about playing for fun and that's why I continue to support GGG.

That's not P2W at all. That's optimize farming to win. Building an MF character does not require RMT's, what are you on about?

P.S. Of all my characters, none are specced for MF. I mostly play solo. I am not poor. Most of my characters have good-excellent gear. This MF discussion is driven by those that expect to become rich from 1 hour of farming.

I am the only person who does not run mf? Is there some sort of mf activity leading people to wealth and riches?

This entire thread as baffled me beyond words.

I think this idea is excellent! quite frankly tired of having to have a farmer, just like in diablo 2, if you didnt have an mf sorc early on, you didn't find shit...(at least i didn't).

I think removing it completly would be great, and then perhaps add 25% increased rarity for each player in game aswell. so you're gonna get more rewarded for being 6 players, instead of solo farming.

thumps up bigtime! hopefully GGG responds

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Nephalim wrote:

I am the only person who does not run mf? Is there some sort of mf activity leading people to wealth and riches?

This entire thread as baffled me beyond words.

Many in this thread have said they don't run MF (or only a little).
This thread baffles you, yet you haven't even read it?
Or is this some weak attempt at trolling?