Remove MF completely from game

I agree with the OP. MF doesn't really make any sense whatsoever.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

ITT: nynyny doesn't understand game mechanics, but argues them anyway.

Now go ahead and do the math for how much you actually have to hit with a single projectile to one shot yourself while resisting 75+% of the 20% that get reflected with instant heals inbetween every bit of reflected damage. Good luck pulling that off with LMP/GMP based builds. Theres a reason I named a few exceptions, one of them being Discharge.

The spell is one big hit, not devided into multiple smaller ones so you obviously can one shot yourself if the hit reflect for more than your max health. Thats pretty hard to pull off, even nearly impossible with multiple projectiles though.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

why crit and not just a shitton of flat damage or simply stop getting multiplier after you reach 300%?

In all honesty, don't you find the "I can't do too much damage or I'll one-shot myself" thing perverse? Upgrades are now downgrades? This is especially true for glass cannons; being required to run remote skills really pigeon-holes you.

I just want to kill things very, very fast. Is that really so wrong?

And, in an attempt to correct the derail, this only makes MF mods more necessary. The game actually limits how much you can DPS things, so instead of trying to go for a faster killspeed you just stack MF. Yawn.

You can play full out glasscanon on Softcore, sure. On Hardcore you cant because of how the league itself works unless you constantly want to lose character. Since having to invest heavily into defense already just to make it to merciless you wont see endgame with a glasscanon character that has 2000 life on 80.

MF isnt necessary since you trade damage for more loot, that isnt necessarily better. In Osnalught/Hardcore barely anyone runs IIR/IIQ gear and still people are able to afford Kaoms/Shavs for 30+ Exalted. Shows you pretty well that killspeed combined with a lot of grinding maybe doesnt completely replace magic find builds, but definitely is a good alternative.

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nynyny wrote:

In Osnalught/Hardcore barely anyone runs IIR/IIQ gear

I don't believe this. At all.

Yes, probably ran slightly less it than in Standard/Anarchy, for survivability reasons. But only slightly.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

In Osnalught/Hardcore barely anyone runs IIR/IIQ gear

I don't believe this. At all.

I am talking about endgame, not about grinding 66-68 maps or Docks.

You will barely find anyone who is up to play 73+ maps in IIR/IIQ gear simply because it takes away a lot of your defense which is what both leagues are about.

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nynyny wrote:

In Osnalught/Hardcore barely anyone runs IIR/IIQ gear and still people are able to afford Kaoms/Shavs for 30+ Exalted. Shows you pretty well that killspeed combined with a lot of grinding maybe doesnt completely replace magic find builds, but definitely is a good alternative.

Just out of curiousity I would like to know...

How many hours per day these guys play the game? Do they use any kind of exploits? Do they for sure NOT use RMT?

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iamstryker wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

In Osnalught/Hardcore barely anyone runs IIR/IIQ gear and still people are able to afford Kaoms/Shavs for 30+ Exalted. Shows you pretty well that killspeed combined with a lot of grinding maybe doesnt completely replace magic find builds, but definitely is a good alternative.

Just out of curiousity I would like to know...

How many hours per day these guys play the game? Do they use any kind of exploits? Do they for sure NOT use RMT?

A lot. Etup, who was on top of the HC ladder for a couple months, probably like 12+ per day.

I highly doubt that they exploit, the wealth simply starts to appear as soon as you chain farm 73+ maps because you can even sell most trash items for multiple chaos thanks to their base stats. And since you just have to create a shop and people will find said shop on the indexer you dont even have to invest time selling, people simply whisper you and you collect the money.

No idea about RMT though, not my concern and I honestly dont really care about it if someone does unlike most people.

Well that stuff does kind of have bearing on the discussion since you can't have the game balanced for people who play all day long or exploit/RMT verses a player who plays a couple hours per day and plays completely legitimate.

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nynyny wrote:

blahblahblah

You don't have a clue.

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nynyny wrote:

Using Vaal Pact as CI makes it impossible for you to ever one shot yourself as long as you use multiple projectiles and the pack doesnt consist of 20+ mobs.

This is specifically about Vaal Pact. Why is pack size relevant? 1 guy or 1000, if you don't 1-hit on one, you don't give a fuck that there's 20.

And as for damage... you ignore most of the equation. If you have very low max life and resistances, you will 1-hit yourself much easier. We are talking about how it works, not "I'm lvl 80 with over 9000ES and I do weak damage so it doesn't matter".

I stand by my accusation that you don't understand mechanics at all.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

blahblahblah

You don't have a clue.

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nynyny wrote:

Using Vaal Pact as CI makes it impossible for you to ever one shot yourself as long as you use multiple projectiles and the pack doesnt consist of 20+ mobs.

This is specifically about Vaal Pact. Why is pack size relevant? 1 guy or 1000, if you don't 1-hit on one, you don't give a fuck that there's 20.

And as for damage... you ignore most of the equation. If you have very low max life and resistances, you will 1-hit yourself much easier. We are talking about how it works, not "I'm lvl 80 with over 9000ES and I do weak damage so it doesn't matter".

I stand by my accusation that you don't understand mechanics at all.

So what youre saying is that when your build is shit and you dont have any defense you will die to reflect?! Nice observation.

Vaal Pacts is an ENDGAME node that you will most likely not even pick up before 80+, so obviously I am assuming that a player has 8000+ ES since that is what the game is about. You can make it to 70 in 24hours and you want to talk about anything else but endgame eventhough its the most time consuming and most diverse part of this game?

Noone is talking about how it works. What I stated is that Vaal Pact makes it nearly impossible for you to one shot yourself as long as you are resistance capped and use multiple projectiles. You bringing up the fact that a person can one shot himself with 30% resistances and low life is completely irrelevant to me because it was never my point. Youre practically saying "LOL Y DO I ONESHOT MYSELF I HAS 10% RESISTANCE XDD".

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iamstryker wrote:

Well that stuff does kind of have bearing on the discussion since you can't have the game balanced for people who play all day long or exploit/RMT verses a player who plays a couple hours per day and plays completely legitimate.

So once again youre saying that GGG should adjust the game to the casual playerbases needs because they are not able/cant be bothered to invest more time?

Back to my question, when will this stop?

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nynyny wrote:

What I stated is that Vaal Pact makes it nearly impossible for you to one shot yourself as long as you are resistance capped and use multiple projectiles.

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nynyny wrote:

Using Vaal Pact as CI makes it impossible for you to ever one shot yourself as long as you use multiple projectiles and the pack doesnt consist of 20+ mobs.

Game. Set. Match.

Same time tomorrow?