Remove MF completely from game

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Nephalim wrote:

Wouldnt that hurt totem users who had zero mf?

They made their bed and chose a safe while strong play style.

-IIQ is a thing in this game, especially in conjunction with a very powerful play style (such as 1.8 swings per second with a two hand melee weapon a.k.a. machine gun ground slams)

And doesn't it hurt everyone else even more if you remove IIR/IIQ totally because dual totems and summoners can use the mods more safely?

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LostForm wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Wouldnt that hurt totem users who had zero mf?

They made their bed and chose a safe while strong play style. A what point is there a tradeoff.

And doesn't it hurt everyone else even more if you remove IIR/IIQ totally because they can use the mods more safely?

Removing those mods would not hurt anyone if the base drop rates were rebalanced. As you pointed out, if they were removed then clear speed would be paramount to magic finding. However, maximizing clear speed typically also lends itself to being self destructive (reflect) which has its own drawbacks.

Currently working on leveling a dual-sporker for Anarchy as I decided to start playing a bit again. Just got a bit lucky and found an andvarius last night, so yeah... don't nerf MF!

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thepmrc wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Wouldnt that hurt totem users who had zero mf?

They made their bed and chose a safe while strong play style. A what point is there a tradeoff.

And doesn't it hurt everyone else even more if you remove IIR/IIQ totally because they can use the mods more safely?

Removing those mods would not hurt anyone if the base drop rates were rebalanced. As you pointed out, if they were removed then clear speed would be paramount to magic finding. However, maximizing clear speed typically also lends itself to being self destructive (reflect) which has its own drawbacks.

Currently working on leveling a dual-sporker for Anarchy as I decided to start playing a bit again. Just got a bit lucky and found an andvarius last night, so yeah... don't nerf MF!

There are some builds you may find very fun that do not lack in efficiency. Dual sparks is a strong build, but it is not the only build for farming, nor is summoner. I think you will be suprised at how much weight you can pull with other builds.

Absolutely dual totems gives up some clear speed for much more safety, largely due to circumventing reflect mechanics, but not solely, having spammable totems to use as fodder is pretty strong defensively.

Removing MF is more than just rebalancing drops, it is about offering conflict for end game gear set ups, which outside of a few builds (which can really be isolated to a few keynodes), it very much is a conflict of what slots to give up for more MF stats.

That is the whole beauty of the MF stat is the end game conflict. Removing the conflict totally makes the game worse. Having builds able to avoid the conflict and just go with the rewards make the game worse.

I think the issue should be addressed at the key nodes, it keeps the conflict in tact for everyone else, and balances the circumvention some.

Not really sure what you are getting at.

In endgame there is no real choice. You want GG items with IIQ mods in addition to other mods. If the item can get IIQ/IIR you want it. In my opinion that is not a good thing to have in the game. The problem is particularly with IIQ. Its not about choosing between GG item or MF item, its about getting a GG item with MF on it. Its a statistic that literally EVERY build benefits from which I don't believe is good for the game personally.

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thepmrc wrote:

Not really sure what you are getting at.

In endgame there is no real choice. You want GG items with IIQ mods in addition to other mods. If the item can get IIQ/IIR you want it. In my opinion that is not a good thing to have in the game. The problem is particularly with IIQ. Its not about choosing between GG item or MF item, its about getting a GG item with MF on it. Its a statistic that literally EVERY build benefits from which I don't believe is good for the game personally.

yes. exactly. It is another layer of mods you want. So now you have to give up either offense or defensive mod slots for rewards. Giving up offensive or defensive mods increase the effort you have to put into combat. Getting rewards easier decreases the amount of combat needed per reward.

It is a balancing act, how many combat stats can you give up for increasing your reward. It is conflict in gear choices. Do I concentrate on my efficiency via faster combat or via faster rewards. If you find the absolutely best items in game, they will boost both to levels that you dont feel a draw back, and increase your efficiency both ways.

Like a gold amulet with +70 life, +30 all stats, 15% all resist, +lightning damage and then two IIQ rolls,. It doesnt need another offensive or defensive mod to be ridiculous, so it also increasing your rewards during combat is just ...insanely good. Like much better than some extra resist or damage in almost all situations, and it is much more fun of a reward than just another defensive and/or offensive mod.

If you are forgoing all combat enhancing mods for mods buffing the rewards, and are still successful during comabat, such as summoners or totems, it is a better solution to adjust those builds particularly, not the mod. Either reduce their strength to make them require more combat stats, this is a tough road for PoE. Or the other option is make the reward focused stats less effective as they require less of a commitment, either through diminshing returns (not fun) or a lower base to begin with (more of an overcome-able challenge to the player)

Have to agree with OP.

I have tons of builds that I want to run built around uniques, but due to them not having IIR/IIQ on them, makes them inherently inferior to builds that don't need them.

For instance Bringer of Rain. IMO it's the best designed unique in the game, completely OP stats, but with one of the harshest drawbacks in the game. But there is 2nd huge drawback, complete loss of an IIR/IIQ gear slot. Also, factor in the loss of resists in 2 slots, you now have to balance that in other gear slots making IIR/IIQ harder to stack. Without near perfect gear, any build using Bringer of Rain will be operating at huge IIR/IIQ penalty. IMO, this completely makes me disregard this item and any build needing it.

If anything, IIR/IIQ effectiveness needs to be reduced and spread out over normal drop rates.

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thepmrc wrote:

You want GG items with IIQ mods in addition to other mods. If the item can get IIQ/IIR you want it.

Its not about choosing between GG item or MF item, its about getting a GG item with MF on it.

In the end, its all just GREEDINESS. "I" dont want to suffer from that decision, so nobody else should be able to take an advantage by it...

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thepmrc wrote:

Its a statistic that literally EVERY build benefits from which I don't believe is good for the game personally.

'same option for all' is not a problem, but just a PERFECTLY balanced option.

Made MF dual totem spark only coz i have orb problems on my FUN character :/

Cannot play my FUN character now, coz i need upgrades he cant get alone -> more of boring farm on MF...
All in this topic :S

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Its a statistic that literally EVERY build benefits from which I don't believe is good for the game personally.

'same option for all' is not a problem, but just a PERFECTLY balanced option.

By that logic, we should have an affix on gear that simply gives +x% damage. It shouldn't care about damage types or anything, and should work with burning damage and Chaos damage-over-time too.

Or, such an affix is obviously overpowered. Like IIQ and even IIR are.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Its a statistic that literally EVERY build benefits from which I don't believe is good for the game personally.

'same option for all' is not a problem, but just a PERFECTLY balanced option.

By that logic, we should have an affix on gear that simply gives +x% damage. It shouldn't care about damage types or anything, and should work with burning damage and Chaos damage-over-time too.

Or, such an affix is obviously overpowered. Like IIQ and even IIR are.

O_o Must be the most broken thing in PoE, having both IIR and all damage increase.


Are resists broken because anyone can use them? How about +movement speed?