Remove MF completely from game

@lostform

spectre/totems,magic skill/totem, double totem users have a slow clear time? That would be news to me. :)

edit: we would first make a compromise about what "slow" means.

edit: and then again these build aren´t even the problem it´s the items/mods/uniques

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LostForm wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

If you are playing the correct build then MF will always be lucrative while being easy to stack.

The kicker is the builds that can 'easily' stack MF have slow clear times to builds that need very specific gear that isnt MF.

Oh yea, I forgot how slow dual-spork was at clearing zones.

Can't help but laugh about 'watering down the game'. That is exactly what MF does. I will just continue playing a stupid sporker and MAX out IIQ while getting as much IIR as possible. I won't enjoy it, but I didn't enjoy wearing MF gear in D2 either but there was no getting around it.

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thepmrc wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

If you are playing the correct build then MF will always be lucrative while being easy to stack.

The kicker is the builds that can 'easily' stack MF have slow clear times to builds that need very specific gear that isnt MF.

Oh yea, I forgot how slow dual-spork was at clearing zones.

Can't help but laugh about 'watering down the game'. That is exactly what MF does. I will just continue playing a stupid sporker and MAX out IIQ while getting as much IIR as possible. I won't enjoy it, but I didn't enjoy wearing MF gear in D2 either but there was no getting around it.

Ya because dual totem spark is the fastest clear speed you can come up with? You are joking right?


I did say relative. Dual spark totem gets lapped by several builds in clear speed. And summoner is waaay slower...especially in indoor maps.

You choose to limit yourself with that dual spark MF build. You dont have to play that build to be economical competitive. If you remove the ability to max drops per kill, you absolutely do limit the game to 'power' builds that maximize clear speed.

With MF, there are options. With no MF, you go with the hardest hitting ability in game, or get left in the dust.

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LostForm wrote:

Ya because dual totem spark is the fastest clear speed you can come up with? You are joking right?


I did say relative. Dual spark totem gets lapped by several builds in clear speed.

Saying that dual totem builds have 'slow' clear speeds is pretty laughable. In order to have the same efficiency in item finding you would need to be clearing at 8-10x faster with zero IIQ/IIR versus a stacked IIQ/IIR character. This is pretty unrealistic.

Personally I feel these mods dumb down the game as it just turns into a mindless farm fest. You feel that they add depth to gameplay I guess. I don't see it.

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LostForm wrote:

With MF, there are options. With no MF, you go with the hardest hitting ability in game, or get left in the dust.

I guess there is some legitimacy to that. There would certainly be more emphasis on character builds that maximize clear speeds and things rather than the emphasis being on stacking MF. Both are inherently flawed.

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thepmrc wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

Ya because dual totem spark is the fastest clear speed you can come up with? You are joking right?


I did say relative. Dual spark totem gets lapped by several builds in clear speed.

Saying that dual totem builds have 'slow' clear speeds is pretty laughable. In order to have the same efficiency in item finding you would need to be clearing at 8-10x faster with zero IIQ/IIR versus a stacked IIQ/IIR character. This is pretty unrealistic.

Personally I feel these mods dumb down the game as it just turns into a mindless farm fest. You feel that they add depth to gameplay I guess. I don't see it.

I highly doubt you are rocking 800-1000 IIR/IIQ lol. wtf are you even saying dude.

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LostForm wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

Ya because dual totem spark is the fastest clear speed you can come up with? You are joking right?


I did say relative. Dual spark totem gets lapped by several builds in clear speed.

Saying that dual totem builds have 'slow' clear speeds is pretty laughable. In order to have the same efficiency in item finding you would need to be clearing at 8-10x faster with zero IIQ/IIR versus a stacked IIQ/IIR character. This is pretty unrealistic.

Personally I feel these mods dumb down the game as it just turns into a mindless farm fest. You feel that they add depth to gameplay I guess. I don't see it.

I highly doubt you are rocking 800-1000 IIR/IIQ lol. wtf are you even saying dude.

Imagine a basic 100IIQ/400IIR setup and do the math yourself.

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thepmrc wrote:

Imagine a basic 100IIQ/400IIR setup and do the math yourself.

100% IIQ would be comparable to 2x clear speed, which I think is entirely doable probably a lot more. Dual totem spark is a strong build, it is safe, it is pretty easy to play, it is not a speed racer though compared to some builds one and two shotting bosses (there are more besides discharge).


I think you are over estimating your returns. Especially since IIR doesnt affect currency drops.

Also several IIR uniques are pretty strong for evasion characters looking to up clear speed, particularly auresize and rat's nest

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LostForm wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Imagine a basic 100IIQ/400IIR setup and do the math yourself.

100% IIQ would be comparable to 2x clear speed, which I think is entirely doable probably a lot more. Dual totem spark is a strong build, it is safe, it is pretty easy to play, it is not a speed racer though compared to some builds one and two shotting bosses (there are more besides discharge).


I think you are over estimating your returns.

If you are getting 100% more items and 400% more of them are rare you get 8x as many rare items... yay for maths. Yes it is not the same return for currency, however, the return is much more than 2x, and even finding another build that is able to clear twice as fast without INSANE amounts of gear is not easy.

Why you´re fighting over numbers?

There are builds that can utilize rolls with 1-3 mods only for MF(prefix iir/suffix iir,iiq) while other builds need every quantum of rolls for survivability).

Even those build that use survivability and a minimal MF, therefore you think they are fast in clear speed, aren´t in the range of outplaying those farming build.

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thepmrc wrote:

I think that you completely contradict yourself here. If MF is the most useful for high level maps then why would people get to level 72+ maps and discard MF because it will no longer be as lucrative? How is it that MF is most useful but less lucrative in high level maps at the same time? If you are playing the correct build then MF will always be lucrative while being easy to stack.

Mf is most valuable at 72-77 maps but even so, I personally did not find it lucrative enough to justify using gimp gear and thats my point. It makes no difference to me at this point if 4 rares or 20 rares drop from a single map even though using mf was actually safer for me due to less worry of reflect.

If i was able to run 75-77 consistent then 'maybe' i would consider it but atm running 72s-74s with the occasional 75-76 I really dont see any point.

Also, Keep in mind many items classes are not even worth picking up such as most 2handed weapons and most armor types which further diminishes mf's worth.