Remove MF completely from game

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Spysong192 wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

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Spysong192 wrote:

If you run solo you need to max out iiq and back it up with iir @nepha. Not the other way around imo.

As stated, I do not solo in fact I have not soloed since level 66.

Ah my fault i misread it. =)

But if i implying here your posts correctly you´re saying that IIR/IIQ should also have a influence on how "good" drops will be and not only on quantity?

Wouldn´t that double dip the problem itself some people are arguing here? I mean instead of solving the base problem of MF you´re saying that we should introduce a third level of MF, amount of drops, rarity level of drops, "goodness" of drops. Sorry if understand you incorrectly.

No, im saying contrary to what others have said here that mf is too powerful and too mandatory, i am saying the opposite, it is too underpowered in the face of rng.

I'm pretty sure alot of people in this thread never used large quantities of MF before. anything between 50-300% will yield the same results.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Spysong192 wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

As stated, I do not solo in fact I have not soloed since level 66.

Ah my fault i misread it. =)

But if i implying here your posts correctly you´re saying that IIR/IIQ should also have a influence on how "good" drops will be and not only on quantity?

Wouldn´t that double dip the problem itself some people are arguing here? I mean instead of solving the base problem of MF you´re saying that we should introduce a third level of MF, amount of drops, rarity level of drops, "goodness" of drops. Sorry if understand you incorrectly.

No, im saying contrary to what others have said here that mf is too powerful and too mandatory, i am saying the opposite, it is too underpowered in the face of rng.

So you feel the answer is to improve IIQ/IIR mods to further the disparity between totem/summoner builds and real interactive builds?

How about a rebalance of the base drop rates and then balance IIQ/IIR scaling and DR from that point. Make the disparity between a stacked IIQ/IIR character and a zero mf character a factor of 2 rather than a factor of 10.

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Jarenga wrote:

I'm pretty sure alot of people in this thread never used large quantities of MF before. anything between 50-300% will yield the same results.

I wish this was true, but its not. IIR does start to plateau a bit, but there is no DR on IIQ.

I'm saying mf is relatively well balanced as is, due to
1) market saturation making the vast majority of rares worthless or chaos fodder
2) not at all worthwhile once you reach a certain level of gear and wealth

If the baseline here is a level 74 character grinding the bajezus out of docks or lunaris with 0 mf vs 300 mf then yes that might be limiting to build diversity but it is only a segment of players.

Mf is most useful in high level maps (76+) but by the time you are able to run those efficient, your gear and weath would have likely been already to a point where additional rares would not be a huge benefit.

I would like to ask for those who are running mf and also feel it should be removed or nerfed please list your character level and what area or what level of maps you run to give everyone a better idea of the situation.

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Nephalim wrote:

I'm saying mf is relatively well balanced as is, due to
1) market saturation making the vast majority of rares worthless or chaos fodder
2) not at all worthwhile once you reach a certain level of gear and wealth

If the baseline here is a level 74 character grinding the bajezus out of docks or lunaris with 0 mf vs 300 mf then yes that might be limiting to build diversity but it is only a segment of players.

Mf is most useful in high level maps (76+) but by the time you are able to run those efficient, your gear and weath would have likely been already to a point where additional rares would not be a huge benefit.

I would like to ask for those who are running mf and also feel it should be removed or nerfed please list your character level and what area or what level of maps you run to give everyone a better idea of the situation.

Could you elaborate why you think MF only benefits on 76+ maps?

edit: I think you´re going to argue because of item mods. When you look closley at item mod data base you´ll see that the jump from 66+- mods to 77+- having the range of 1-5 points(mostly). So a argumentation here would only be effective if you would be talking about a super min/max situation that is only a matter for 1% of the player base while this discussion is more around a middleish base of the players starting maps or farming merc docks. like you mentioned.

The reason mf is most useful for high levels maps is because the most valuable modifiers are only found on the highest ilvl base items.
For example:

Tier 1 fire damage and tier 1 cold damage is ilvl 76
Tier 1 light damage is ilvl 77
31-36 WED which is ivll 77
For armours tier 1 ES% and flat ES is 76 or 77(?).

Simply put, most top tier items can only be found on high ilvl base items.

Granted even 99 life and 45 res can spawn in docks so you can still certainly find tier 1 boots/gloves/rare chest pieces.


If we base this thread around solely middleish players grinding docks and lunaris with stacked mf then there is an issue. however, they will naturally progress to 66 then 70 then 72+ maps and eventually discard mf because it will no longer be as lucrative. Sadly it is incredibly hard to be able run level 75-77 consistently these days due to the vast majority of high ladder players quitting due to frustration and dwindling player base.

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Nephalim wrote:

The reason mf is most useful for high levels maps is because the most valuable modifiers are only found on the highest ilvl base items.
For example:

Tier 1 fire damage and tier 1 cold damage is ilvl 76
Tier 1 light damage is ilvl 77
31-36 WED which is ivll 77
For armours tier 1 ES% and flat ES is 76 or 77(?).

Simply put, most top tier items can only be found on high ilvl base items.

Granted even 99 life and 45 res can spawn in docks so you can still certainly find tier 1 boots/gloves/rare chest pieces.


If we base this thread around solely middleish players grinding docks and lunaris with stacked mf then there is an issue. however, they will naturally progress to 66 then 70 then 72+ maps and eventually discard mf because it will no longer be as lucrative. Sadly it is incredibly hard to be able run level 75-77 consistently these days due to the vast majority of high ladder players quitting due to frustration and dwindling player base.

I think that you completely contradict yourself here. If MF is the most useful for high level maps then why would people get to level 72+ maps and discard MF because it will no longer be as lucrative? How is it that MF is most useful but less lucrative in high level maps at the same time? If you are playing the correct build then MF will always be lucrative while being easy to stack.

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Nephalim wrote:

Mf is most useful in high level maps (76+) but by the time you are able to run those efficient, your gear and weath would have likely been already to a point where additional rares would not be a huge benefit.

I would like to ask for those who are running mf and also feel it should be removed or nerfed please list your character level and what area or what level of maps you run to give everyone a better idea of the situation.

Lvl 79, melee dual claw Essentai Sanguis based build, 320/60 Mf for bosses, 240/30 for normals lunaris 3 farm.

Highest map so far was lvl 71. Only got 1 single lvl 70 selffound in my hands and this map didnt yield any map at all.


@Othivet: Btw removing MF wouldn't help you at all to have the same success as 24/7 players, when you only invest 2 hours. I dont get you point there at all.


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Without Mf i see a rare all now and then. With 240/30 mf I gett lots of mf. Per map its like 2 invetories full. So how you can say "Mf is not usefull at high lvl map" i just something, i can not understand.

For me the fun of the game is mostly in the loot. So consequently the only character I have been feeling like playing lately is my mf character. This is because its only on my mf character that I feel like I could ever find some decent rares/uniques.

I don't want to argue on what the problem is but I have to agree that there is a problem. I wish I could play the game with any of my characters and still feel like I could find something decent without playing for 10000 hours.

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thepmrc wrote:

If you are playing the correct build then MF will always be lucrative while being easy to stack.

The kicker is the builds that can 'easily' stack MF have slow clear times to builds that need very specific gear that isnt MF.

Removing MF in no way fixes any of the problems presented in this thread.


Summoners are not all of a sudden going to be the same as playing melee. Builds that clear slow are not magically going to start clearing faster.

Literally nothing is accomplished by removing magic find stats except taking away layers of progression, and making the game shorter to 'completion' and watering down the game.






@Otiveht: Having gear give you more umph per kill is not somehow handicapping people that dont play 24 hours a day. If anything, giving a players ability to gear for maximizing drops per kill, as opposed to only drops per minute (clear speed), is the only thing allowing players with casual play schedules to stay in shouting distance of players putting in many more hours.

If clear speed was the only consideration for upping drops, players able to clear more zones due to time spent have even more of an economical advantage, allowing for faster clear speeds, due to better gear, leading to more zones cleared per unit of play time, while having way way more units of play time.


the Only thing about D3 is the fact that leveling up paragon levels increases your innate magic find stats, meaning more time leveling gives a large MF bonus. In PoE, you dont gain some bonus to IIR/IIQ from time spent playing.